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We guarantee it. Juna. 1:00 If you want to understand what's really happening in South Dakota, start with The Dakota Scout, South Dakota's leading journal of politics and culture, locally owned and printed in Sioux Falls. 1:13 Founded in 2022 by veteran reporters Jonathan Ellis and Joe Sneve, the Scout brings more than 40 years of combined experience and a reputation for relentless, fair-minded reporting. 1:25 From Sioux Falls City Hall to the state capitol in Pierre, The Dakota Scout delivers breaking news, investigative reporting, and serious political coverage without the spin. 1:35 Its Lewis and Clark-inspired logo reflects its mission, charting new territory in a new era of South Dakota journalism. 1:43 Subscribe today for full access to stories delivered straight to your inbox, plus The Scouting Lounge podcast. $7 a month at thedakotascout.com. The Dakota Scout. Stay informed. 2:00 Introducing Bud Light Seltzer Hard Soda. Classic cola, cherry cola, citrus soda, and orange soda. You hear that? It's seltzer with the pop of soda. Flavor. All with zero sugar. 2:15 Bud Light Seltzer Hard Soda, the loudest flavors ever. Ah. Enjoy responsibly. Anheuser-Busch Bud Light Seltzer Hard Soda. IRC Beers, St. Louis, Missouri. Distributed by Beal Distributing, Sioux Falls, South Dakota. 2:46 Welcome to The Scouting Lounge, a podcast of the Dakota Scout newspaper based in Sioux Falls, South Dakota. I'm Jonathan Ellis, and that was a Beal Distributed prod- product opened by co-host Joe Sneve. Hello. 3:00 What's up, dude? What's up? And psh. Psh. That was not a very... [laughs] This is the last of the bottles. The last of the bottles. We'll be bringing back... Somebody told me that they thought the sound of the bottle 3:14 came off pretty good. Oh, it comes off okay? All right. Mm-hmm. Well, maybe- You like... maybe it's not the last of the bottle. I like the elegance of a bottle sometimes. I do too. Yeah. And that there is Mr. 3:23 Patrick Lally, Sioux Falls Live. How you doing? Hello, friends. I'm great. We've spent a lot of time together the last- [laughs]... few days. Uh, the- Yeah, what are you guys been up to? Oh. Oh, boy. The, uh... 3:34 You guys did a good job, though. Thanks. Did you mention Juna? Juna Sleep Systems? I did not mention Juna Sleep Systems. Well, better. I'm gonna sleep on one tonight, and it's gonna feel good, 'cause I'm tired. 3:44 It's been a long week. It has been a long week. And I get to, uh, I get to drive to Deadwood today, so. I... Oh, you're gonna go all the way. South Dakota Newspaper Association, yeah, today. 3:55 I have, I have my reservation, so I'm just gonna keep going. The, uh, I intend to leave tonight, but, uh, I don't think I'll get all the way to Deadwood. 4:05 I think I'll get to Rapid, and then I'm gonna go to Custer in the morning. That's a lovely drive. And then, uh, I'm only gonna go to the banquet tomorrow night. Ah. So I'm gonna eat, and then I'm gonna gamble. 4:21 [laughs] We're going to the s- With money, not my life... we should say, uh, South Dakota Newspaper Association... Uh, not newspaper. Oh, listen to me. Media. Old school. Yeah. South Dakota News Media Association 4:35 meeting, annual- News Media... conference out there in, uh, your Deadwood. The Deadwood. Last year was Aberdeen. I think the year before that was Pierre or Chamberlain or something. Pierre. Herren. Herren. Yeah. 4:46 Actually, I'd, I'd love to go back to Herren, because it's only two hours from Herren instead of six. Yeah. But that's okay. Going all the way to the other side. We better win some awards. [laughs] Let's not. 5:04 Uh, you know, we won't explore that. Yeah. Um- I can tell you what's gonna... I'm gonna talk about on next week's podcast. [laughs] No, it's, uh, it's fun to see everybody. 5:17 Um, for us, it's our first, uh, conference with our new friends and forum family, Madison and Pierre. And so- Yes... we'll be gathered around our table. I don't know. 5:29 We're, we're gonna get together at some point, so that'll be fun. But it's... Yeah, it's, it, it's a nice time to get together when, you know, with fellow media people. Journos. Uh- Journos. 5:41 Yeah, how long has it been that you guys took over those other papers? Just a few months. Like, I think it was right, was it November maybe? Yeah. Something like that. Yeah. I can't remember. 5:50 Um, we just, and you'll appreciate this, we just moved them over to our print production side. Yeah. 5:58 So last couple of weeks I've been having to relive those nightmares of Print production Yeah 'cause I don't have me no newspaper. We just finished that right before we turned the mics on. 6:09 We sent our pages off to the press, which your company- Yeah... prints for us Four One Communications. Yep, yeah. So- Thanks for the business... right here in Sioux Falls, South Dakota. Yep. So... 6:20 Well, also in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, we had a debate. Oh, that's right. And we have another debate, too, coming up. Yeah, we got the mayoral debate, which talk about what... Kudos to you guys. 6:30 Uh, I've already got a lot of good feedback from lots of people about, you know, the subject matter itself. You know, the other two debates were pretty standard I think. Mm-hmm. Well- Here's, here's a question. 6:42 What do you feel about property taxes? You each get- One minute... one minute. Talk about property taxes. Yeah, I wrote a column today, actually. It's up on siouxfallslive.com about kind of 6:55 a little bit of the inside- Mm... like, thoughts on that, like how we came up with the p- the, the way we asked our questions and, and, and why we did individual questions. And, you know, um, not in depth, but just 7:12 because it's like, you know, the three of us at some measure have that experience, not that others don't, but we have the experience and the con- context and understanding of what's going on to ask a question that's, 7:32 that tries to go deeper, to get real answers. You know what I mean? Did you, uh, I haven't read your column, but did you write about how at, at the last, at the last second we decided to switch it up? [laughs] No. Okay. 7:43 Uh, I said, uh, something that you may read as that, but normal people won't. Um, it wasn't perfect, you know, but... And we did make some adjustments like- All-... 7:53 Ellis and I walking over to the pavilion for a final soundcheck saying, "You know, does that feel- Yeah... doesn't something just doesn't feel good there?" 8:04 And, uh- So the, we took out, just for the, for listeners and who, who watched the debate, we had three sections, e- three segments of, in each segment we had the personal- Direct questions... 8:16 individual direct questions. Yeah. And we decided in segment three that we weren't getting to enough issues, and so we g- got rid of the... 8:23 That was what we did on the fly, got rid of that whole section, moved stuff around. Mm-hmm. Moved, moved a couple of those questions into segments one and two and switched, switched that out. Mm-hmm. 8:31 And then we had room in that third segment for more of the issues- Yeah... that, that we- And, and then Ellis jammed one in right at the end, and I'm- I did... I'm trying to wave him off, and he's like- I'm like, "No"... 8:40 "Do it. I'm doing it." [laughs] 30 seconds. Because we had a hard out- Yeah... on the TV broadcast. Yeah. We had to be out by 8:57:26 or whatever. Yeah. 'Cause then it's a hard out. 8:49 And so with final, with, uh, you know- The closing comments... 8:53 state closers, closers were two minutes, uh, you know, we had to have, uh, that on, that part of it underway by a certain point of, point, and I'm like, "30 seconds, uh- Yeah, go. [laughs]... I wanna ask one more." 9:06 So, and there was a lot of stuff we left on the cutting room floor. Yeah. That happens. And, and we warned them that we want, might do the rapid fire. I mean, 9:13 uh, Joe, you were in contact with them, like, "Okay," like, "here's what we're gonna do." [laughs] Yeah. It was, you know, you guys did a good job holding it together. Uh, you got scolded, Jonathan. 9:28 Did you apologize yet? [laughs] I have not. And I didn't write that question. [laughs] No. And that, y- well, I know, and the other thing is- No, you didn't. 9:38 [laughs] Um, the other question that I stumbled on, and I s- mentioned this in the column, and I did, not just which one, but I said I stumbled occasionally, was the, the prison question for Rhoden. 9:49 And Ellis had to kinda come in and bail me out there. [laughs] That was not good. Well, I will say when you, uh, you know, this is a, a collaborative thing, right? Yeah. 10:01 Three of y'all got together and brainstormed questions. Yeah. So if, when you have people in the room for that process and you choose to use their questions- Yep... and they're not the ones at the desk asking- Right... 10:13 that can be, I can see where that's... I mean, you don't have the confidence of delivering the question you would've if it was your- Yeah... natural inquisition. 10:21 And in the moment, I couldn't come up with the phrase that... It was the prison question, and, and you were, you wrote that question. We talked about it, but I couldn't come up with the phrase in my head 10:32 that Rhoden had said about, uh- Oh, yeah. Failure's not an option. Right. Yeah. 10:37 And, and he had said that publicly, and just to set that up properly because afterwards, you know, he, his contention was he was, this was the plan he was given, right? Yeah. Okay. But now you're the governor. 10:48 [laughs] Right. Like, you can change the plan. Um- Yeah, essentially that was the question. Yep. Right? Like, and I heard you talking to him afterwards about that, the idea that, like, what am I supposed to do? 11:00 We're this far down the field. Yeah. I'm the backup quarterback essentially, and I get put in at the five-yard line. Yep. What am I gonna do, like- And that, he said the-... take a knee? You know. You know? 11:11 The, uh- That's your answer, right? Except he wasn't on the five-yard line. He was on the, uh, uh, he was on his own five-yard line- Yeah... 11:17 because there was gonna be a lot of yardage to get through on that eight, eight- You-... on an $825 million. I'm interested- No, that's perspective. 11:23 I mean, they have done years of planning and consultant work, and they were already moving dirt in Lincoln County. I think that's- Yeah... that might not be the five-yard line. It might... You're in the red zone. 11:33 [laughs] You're in the red zone, you mean? But you can still fumble, you know? Yeah. And, and did they actually have a floor vote on that, or did they just know they weren't gonna pass? No, they had, 11:44 they had a committee vote at one point, I believe, and then they did have a floor vote in the House. So I was taught- They did... I was, 11:54 I learned this from, uh, in the, in the '90s from an old speaker of the house in Iowa who always contended, "I'm not going to bring a piece of legislation to the floor that I don't know is going to pass." Ah. 12:06 Now, things don't pass- Yeah... but I'm not g- we're not gonna have that. And I've always found it interesting 12:13 Because that doesn't mean a lot of votes would fail in South Dakota, and I've always wondered, why would you do that? 12:19 If you, if you're the, if you're the majority leader or whatever, of whatever, uh, uh, if you're the house speaker or the majority leader, whoever's whipping the stuff, 12:27 why would you bring something to the floor that you know is gonna lose? Because everything has to come to the floor. That's the South Dakota process. No, it goes to committee. Well, you get... 12:35 I mean, if it doesn't, if it makes it out of committee, yeah. Every bill gets a hearing. I mean, it's gotta, it's gotta, it's- The idea is why would you even file a bill if you know it's dead on arrival? 12:43 And I think we've talked about that with, like, Phil Jensen legislation and stuff like that. Well, there, I mean- They send stuff because you're, 'cause you're trying to pull a p- p- a political point. 12:52 I mean, and, and, like, like here's an exam- I mean, John Thune is in this position as majority leader. Yeah. He knows, he said, "I don't have the votes- Mm-hmm... to get the Save Back passed." 13:01 But he went ahead and brought... Because, because of the political pressure that there is. Yeah. I mean, sometimes you just have to, you just have to. Well, he doesn't do that very often. 13:08 They, they, they're in a very bad position with that, the, this current budget stand, which apparently they solved today. But, um, it, yeah, I just, there's... That was an odd one. Like, 13:22 I don't, I, there had to be a way out of... Because that's embarrassing. Yeah. I'm just gonna look up if they had actually had a vote or not. But either way, they read the room- Yeah... and they didn't have the votes. 13:33 Uh, I mean, it's, at the end of the day, he'd supported a project that then proved to be $125 million- Yeah... more than what was necessary. Yeah, as it turns out. 13:44 Well, that's because the, the way they designed that first one was they all got skylights in their... and you know what I mean? They all had natural... It, it was, it was a nice prison. 13:54 Uh, and then they scaled back some of that stuff. Uh, and whoa, lo and behold, you can save some money. So- Well, I don't know. Either they, I bet this one's- They got rid of, they made some of the-... 14:06 still pretty nice too. [laughs] Well, I, I will say compared to the, the, uh, the, the hill up here- The gold one, yeah. [laughs]... which I, which I got a, uh, a tour of. Mm-hmm. 14:16 Uh, I, I think I've said this before on this podcast, but, uh, if I ever do something that warrants me getting put up on the hill, they're not taking me alive. [laughs] I'm not living there. 14:28 [laughs] Well, I think they scaled it back for sure, and obviously found cost reductions- Yep... but say it's still 100-year facility, and, like, it still meets the needs and, and whatever. 14:40 It was a one, one bid on the construction manager- Mm-hmm... at risk. You've got Governor Noem in there. Mm-hmm. Uh, I wonder why they only had one bid, right? Um- Mm-hmm. Gosh, I don't know. 14:52 They built, they designed it. Uh, my suspicions are it was built, overbuilt to begin with- Yeah... because if you're getting, if you're the builder, you're getting a percentage. Mm-hmm. And, like, no one's looking. 15:06 No one's really questioning this. Mm-hmm. So, like, a skeptical government is good because it just saved taxpayers money. Oh, for sure. Well, and clearly we could do it. 15:15 It was like at the rou- groundbreaking, you know, the JE Dunn guys up there being like, "We saved you a bunch of money." And it's like, well, yeah, Amffer, you just charged- [laughs]... 125. [laughs] We... 15:27 Well, you know, I was at- I want my $2... like, we got off the debate here. Yeah. But I was at the, uh, I was at the June meeting- Here we go. It was my question... 15:34 the, the reset, yeah, the project reset meeting in Pierre in June- Yeah... I think last year it was. 15:39 And all of a sudden this other d- prison builder had shown up, and I can't remember the name of them now, but you, you... And they like, it was just like revelatory. Like, this is why you only got one bid, right? 15:50 Because- It, it was the one in, from, that built the $300 million jail or prison in Nebraska. Uh, yeah. And they were building one, and they, they... Yeah, I think they're based out of Indiana, if I remember right. 15:59 And they'd, they'd built, uh, they'd done some work at Gitmo and, yeah. So they were very experienced, but they came in and basically, and all, all the people on that committee were like, "Whoa." 16:09 Like, you know, you know, like, that was kind of the, the, the moment where I'm like, "Yeah, they're gonna figure out a way to save some big cash out of, out of this deal." 16:18 Well- And they could even save more, actually, if they- And it's good. Like- Yeah... I, you know, that- How's that... 16:23 it's just, it should have happened before, like, that process, that negotiation, whatever, it just should have happened before it was coming up for a vote, right? Yeah. That's too late. Well, it all lends it... 16:34 I mean, it's all probably a part of the ingredients into the political ecosphere we have right now. Yep. 16:40 The skeptical of everybody, the little guy, the average person is skeptical of government, big business, big government, you know, like- Mm-hmm... like populous, uh, populism is, doesn't come from nowhere. Uh- No... 16:55 and the idea that, and we literally just almost got taken for $175 million more than we should have from under the last administration. 17:07 Well, you know, bidding- It's gonna be hard to- I, and I- It's, g- good government should be skeptical because it, like, don't just rubber stamp the administration's thing. 17:17 Like, the Noem administration was not looking out for the taxpayer, apparently. Well- [laughs] Well- Right... you know, and, and 17:25 we didn't get to ask this question in a debate, to bring it back to the debate, which is professional service contracts. Right? Yeah. That was on our list, though. 17:32 There's a lot of fat there, and clearly it can be manipulated. Um, Freedom Works here is the best example, but who the hell knows, right? 17:41 We, Ellis has done reporting in the distant past about the, the legal contracts- Yeah... and how that works. And it's just very, very loose. Yeah. There's no... And I remember that. 17:55 You can't get the, uh, itemized invoices for the work that's done for the people. Right. It's like, how much was that? It's about 3 million. Could I get like a, a itemized? No. They'll give you a contract. 18:08 How much were the door handles? Yeah. You know? [laughs] I wanna know. I wanna know if that was a $900 toilet. Right. No, that's ridiculous. Yeah. 18:17 And there's so much of South Dakota government that's that way Well, apparently it hel- uh, hu- uh, the, uh, Homeland Security. There's some, some of that there too. [laughs] That's right. Yeah. Their common denominator. 18:29 Yeah. Yeah. Who's their common denominator? Yeah. Yep. Um, so yeah, I mean, that, and that's, that's what we want from government though, right? We want, uh... 18:39 And, and maybe with the populism will come some, uh, movement for some of these things we talk about, right? Which is more transparency in the finan- finances of state government- Mm-hmm... and the actions and all that. 18:53 Maybe that's the byproduct of that. Well, let's hope, because when you go to county commission meetings, Jonathan, and you've heard it too, you know, you get these, you know, well-intended- Mm-hmm... 19:05 sort of new-to-the-game citizens. Yep. That... And whenever they say, "Isn't it interesting?" It's like- [laughs]... "Well, yeah, it was interesting until you researched it." [laughs] "Then it was that interesting." 19:17 Like, if somebody says that, like a skeptical, "Isn't it interesting?" Like- Mm. That-... keep going. Yep. Keep going. [laughs] Uh- You're getting there... you're gonna get there. [laughs] Uh, but 19:27 you know, and that's the only way to, like... We're get- we're all tired of, like, people wasting their time at meetings with- Yep... crap at public input, right? Right. 19:33 But open the books, you know, they have n- no footing or momentum or wind behind their sails- Yeah... if it's all on the table, right? 19:42 Like, they, you fuel the fire to the conspiracy theorists and the people you think the establishment thinks gets, getting in the way- Yep... if you just do be palms up- Yep... like most of the time. 19:53 And, you know, the city, um, I think the councilors have become very... I see them coming out after public opinion or public input more now, and talking to somebody who came up and said something that seemed... 20:08 And just to say, "What? Where's that coming from?" Like, w- and so that's good- Mm-hmm... but that's a micro- Right... action. One at a time. Right. And, um, I don't know, I find the city is not... 20:25 You can't get everything, but the state just is, the bureaucracy of the state is much more impenetrable than the bureaucracy of the city. Is that fair? Yeah. Yep. I would say. 20:37 Well, we were, uh, we were talking about the debate. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry, what? Now we have to do this. We have to go down the rabbit hole for every answer to every question for every candidate at this point, right? 20:48 [laughs] No. So we'll, we'll take a break, and then we will, uh, talk about how Dodan yelled at you. [laughs] Let me grab my car keys and we'll roll. Are we still going to that new bar downtown? Yeah. 21:00 It's supposed to be fun. Lexi, give me driving directions from home to downtown bar district. Autocorrect. Suggest Uber. Pick up home, drop off downtown bar district. No, I'm driving. 21:11 Suggest the Metro Bus departing in 12 minutes. Point taken, Lexi. We'll grab a ride. If you drink, don't drive. Decide to ride. Brought to you in partnership by Anheuser-Busch, Mothers Against Drunk Driving, and Uber. 21:23 This message brought to you by Beale Distributing of Sioux Falls. We could have saved the three bears a lot of time. Just Right Mattresses, built by mattress nerds with a lifetime comfort commitment. 21:34 We build them by hand and deliver with love. Juna Sleep Systems in Sioux Falls and online at junasleep.com. Thanks again to Juna Sleep Systems, the mattress I will be sleeping on tonight. Very comfortable mattress. 21:47 You guys will be in hotels. [laughs] And Beale Distributed Products. Beale Distributing, my cold Busch Light. Very good. I wish I had one. So who won the debate? That's what everybody asks you, right? Um, I... 22:01 You know, it's, if you're... There's two ways to measure this, right? Who didn't screw up? Because that's winning. And then who exceeded expectations? [laughs] And, uh, Hansen continues to exceed expectations. Um, 22:16 I don't think- Well-... the governor did very well. According to Greg Bilfreige's callers, John won the debate. Uh, but John, th- those aren't real polls. No. Right? Like, and it's a subjective thing. 22:28 I've had a lot of people ask me who won the debate, and I, I don't care to... I don't have an opinion. No. No. I don't. I said, I, I said that in my column that we referenced earlier, like, 22:40 there are a lot of opinions about that. That's for you to decide. But when you're, when you're looking at expectations, the governor did not excel. He does not excel in that arena. 22:49 He would have mention- he would say that, I think. John does very well, and he exceeds expectation because nobody knows him. That doesn't mean he's gonna win. Yeah. Dusty did exactly what Dusty does, and he's very good. 23:03 He try- he, like, personalized himself a bit. Yep. You know, I think the governor, I appreciated him saying he liked the setting because he gets to see who he's talking to. Yeah. He did. 23:10 So he may have done better than, uh... Performed better than he did in the other debates. I'm not sure. I, I didn't watch those others closely and, like, examining each one. Uh- I, I would say, I... 23:22 He, i- he was at maybe a little bit of a disadvantage because he was further away from us. Yeah. And he was, I think, maybe struggling at times to, like, you know, he... Understand the question or, you know- Yeah... 23:31 follow the question. Hear the question. Um, but yeah, that's not his setting. Uh, but I don't think it kills his- No... you know, or anything like that. No. 23:38 It's just- And people who are listening to this podcast have probably listened to the governor on our podcast. Yeah. You know, that's- Just last week. Just la- yeah. 23:45 And so he's, he's somebody who you definitely have a conversation with, you know? Oh, yeah. He's a personable guy. Um, but I don't- Yep. So I'm, I- He's a viable... He's still a viable candidate in the race. 23:54 There's a lot of time left and a lot of money to be spent. Right. Yeah. Right. And I, I don't think, uh, I mean, I don't think there was a quote, winner. I mean- No... 24:02 I think Toby did well, again, conveying his, "I'm the outsider," you know? And, and the contrast of him is that, "Yeah, I'm... These three are all politicians," you know? 24:11 So I think he, again, delivered that message- Yeah... and did, did a good job. And you have to do that. And he did a great job of, like, deflecting from, uh, uh, "I guess I did..." 24:21 He's very anti, uh, well, skeptical of economic development- Mm-hmm... and government helping.... businesses, you know? And we asked him- But it was his. [laughs] Uh- And, and talking about questions- Yeah... 24:33 just to, to go through kind of... We talked about prisons with Roden. Yeah. 24:37 The, the Dodin question is, um, first of all about property taxes, but there's, there's no answer for that 'cause he doesn't have an answer for that. You mean, like, what are your new revenues gonna be? 24:47 Yeah, he's not gonna answer that. So- I was gonna press him on that, but then you butted in line. [laughs] Did I? Oh, I did, didn't I? You wanted, 'cause you wanted to ask about the senior, the senior, uh, uh, exemption. 24:58 Oh, yeah. Well, he, he has posed at, like, town halls that it's the trust companies. Yeah. He could tax the trust companies. And- But he's not gonna say, "Let's have a new tax," on a debate stage, period. No. 25:09 And, um, but the other question about the PPP money I thought was... And this is what you were saying [laughs] here about, about what he was upset about- Oh, yeah... Mr. Ellis. 25:23 Yeah, I mean, that, that too was my question. [laughs] Uh... [laughs] Yeah, it was your question. No, in fact, most of your questions got us in trouble. Yeah. They won't be in trouble. 25:33 That's why- It was a good- That's why I picked Ellis to go up there. It was a great- [laughs] It was a great question. 25:39 So the question was, you know, you're very anti- or, you know, you're skeptical of government assi- uh, entering the pri- involving itself in the private sector- Yeah... 25:48 and sort of boosting economic development for pro- for individual businesses and whatnot. But he also, you know, you took a PPP loan and have grown your empire since then. Mm-hmm. 26:02 And I can't remember exactly the words he used, but, uh- There was one word in there that, that upset him, and I can't remember what exactly the word is. 26:12 It's gr- uh- Grew or built or- Used it, used it to further your business... further your business or something. Yeah. Something like that. Further your business interests. And that, he went off on that. 26:20 Well, nonetheless, it- it's semantic, hope- Yep... right? Yep. Like, it's the same exact thing governments all over the country did with COVID money. Sure, like, I didn't spend that money on a new pickup truck. 26:33 [laughs] But you... No, but you didn't spend the money you already had on something you would have otherwise. Right. And then that freed up capital to do other things with, right? Yep. Like, but for PPP, 26:44 you may have been... You would've faced more pressure to dip into your own savings and feed people- Yep... and whatever you said you did with the PPP money. Yep. 26:53 That kept 100- You could have done that with your own money- Mm-hmm... or fired them- Yep... but for government help. Right. Right? So- What's wrong with that? What's wrong with it? 27:04 Why is it okay for that situation- Right... but not other situations? Right. That was the question. And it was, it was properly framed. Yeah. And he... But it's a good... It was a good tactic of his- Sure... 27:15 to respond and attack you- Exactly... 'cause no longer is it, for his supporters at least, it's no longer about him and what he did. It's about you being mean. The, the, the mean journal. That's a lie. Lying. 27:27 How dare you? How dare you, sir? [laughs] As a moderator, you should be ashamed. Have you no shame, sir? 27:33 We've made it the field of we- we'll, we'll, like, have to, like, draw pistols or swords and, like- [laughs] And then- Yeah... but you, you know, some, some people would've been like, "Oh, well, I'm sorry," or... 27:42 I thought you were gonna be like, "Hey, ask Joe. It was his question." [laughs] He was very complimentary afterwards. They all were. Yeah. You know? They're, they're all- But, but your response, though, to his- Yeah... 27:56 But you took the loan. He took the- [laughs] And he, and he had to- Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, there was a little bit of... You know, I mean, it was a little bit of back and like- Yeah... 28:04 unlike the other two, two, uh, two debates, there was a little bit more. But, I mean, we had more opportunity to follow, do follow-ups- Yep... and, and that sort of thing. 28:11 And we- And, and you know- And you, and you went after... I mean, I think that your, you know, uh, when, when, uh, your conversation with, uh, Dusty Johnson- Yeah... 28:19 was about, hey, the, the K, the, the pre-K stuff, right? Yeah. I mean, you know, how- Right... that's part of the Mississippi model, right? It's a huge part of the Mississippi model. And then we're talking about... 28:27 And this was a question regarding how come our education, or- Yeah... our test scores suck, right? Yep, and he brought up Mississippi Miracle. Yep. And he has been. And, um, I was fortunate in that I had just, 28:40 you know, within the last few weeks, um, listened to your interviews and read more about that, just coincidentally. And I know that they say [laughs] that one of the things they did was invest in early education, pre-K. 28:56 And that was a big part of getting kids ready for school from families who maybe don't have the resources to get them into the, a Mont- Montessori or, you know, other, like, higher end, uh, uh, preschool, private pre... 29:11 You know, they don't have the money for that. And that's what we always talk about. I have two Montessoris. Is that why I'm so- Did you? Is that why I- That's why you're so smart... am so obsessed right now? 29:18 That's why you used the word dem... yeah. [laughs] Um- Well, no, we didn't have pre-K when I... I mean, it didn't exist, and now it does. Yeah. And, and, and to say we need to do what Mississippi did, 29:31 I asked him, "Does that mean we're gonna have statewide pre-K?" And he goes, "Oh, no, no, no." Well- He said we'll never have that, so- We'll, we'll never have preschool. 29:39 But okay, then you're not gonna do what they did, so don't try to claim it. But, but I thought, but I thought, you know, and of course Dusty's very crafty. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And he's like, "Well, I would... They have... 29:47 They did fi- it's 50 things that they did, a- and, uh- Yeah... we don't, we can't, don't have..." It'd be, what did he say, it'd be lazy of me just to say we're gonna do everything- Yeah... you know? 29:55 You gotta- It was a good answer. Yeah, it was. You can't catch him off guard. I mean, you pressed him, but you pressed him twice on that- Yeah... in my recollection. So- But did it... That was a pointed one. 30:04 Nobody else got to jump in on that? No, that was one of our policy ones. Yep. It's just I followed up on that. Did anybody, did anybody else say, like, "Well, we're all bitching about test scores 30:13 by the public school system. Are we gonna hand more of our children's framing to that?" [laughs] No. John Hanson said we're gonna give children- Yeah, John-... have scholarships, and I asked him- Yeah. 30:22 And then you pressed him on is that taxpayer money? Yeah. And he said- Yeah... "Yeah." [laughs] Well, I mean, the fa- yeah, families can use their taxpayer mon- Right. 30:30 I mean, you know, it's, uh, it's all framed- Right... it's all framed in a way. Yep. And- And, you know, that's a, it's a perfectly Uh, it, it's a very interesting concept he has. 30:39 Um, but I, I, uh, ultimately you're, you're letting people use their taxpayer money, um, in a different way, and the question is whether that takes away from education for the rest of them. It's a... 30:49 So it's not a particularly new debate. Um, there are a lot of interesting things going on. We had, um, uh... Oh, geez, what was her name? But it's an interesting question for a GOP primary debate though- Yeah... I think. 31:02 Yeah. Because, I mean, if you're in a general, you don't ask that question 'cause you know where they are. Yeah. Right? Like- Right... 31:08 they're not courting the partisan vote, but, in that way, but they're gonna stick to their c- their principles of their party platform- Yeah... at that point. Yeah. 31:17 Well- They're trying to differentiate themselves in a, in a field of four conservatives. You know, that's a good question. 31:23 And, and we said, uh, going into the, you know, going into this, we said this on a, on a podcast, this will be, these will be questions for a conservative or a GOP primary. Mm-hmm. And they were, I thought. 31:34 I think they- And they were. Not all of them. I mean, there's some general- Yeah... interest there too. Yeah, but- But-... 31:39 generally for- You know- I mean, I- I mean, an education thing you could, you would argue is, is general inte- interest, but you wanna like tease out from their perspective. Right. 31:47 And, and that's why Hansen delivered a, you know, I thought a really... from that conservative point of view. Yeah. It was. So. 31:53 And, but, well, for instance, a good example of why you do that is we asked about constitutional Amendment L. I screwed that question up, too. Ellis had to save me. But they're all like, "Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep." Okay. 32:07 They were. But that's what... That gave me the room then to ask the one about the- Yeah, it did. [laughs] To give me that 30-second last question to get to you guys. That wasn't constitutional convention, was it? No. No. 32:16 That was the, that was the one that, that Dusty's like, "This is... I've been in a lot of debates." Yeah. "This is the most, like, political and science geeky one- Yeah. [laughs]... or something like that. 32:23 I can't remember. That was- It got a big laugh... Oh, that was the one on the, uh, on, uh, college diversity. Oh, yeah. No. That was convention o- of states. The last one. Well, that... No. 32:33 He made the joke, but the last question- The last, the last one that I-... was about-... slipped in in the last 30 seconds... that's when Hansen said that thing about the USD professor, and I've had- Yeah... 32:40 several people go, "What the hell was that?" [laughs] I mean, I... Big, big, big secret there, but- That was the Charlie Kirk thing? No. No. That's a different professor. It was a professor- This was-... 32:52 at the school of medicine who he said was- Oh, the trans... transing kids. The trans- Yeah... the trans- Transing kids in Vermillion... trans king? It's a- It's a woman. It's a... Yeah. I don't know. 33:01 I mean, [laughs] that was a very weird thing to drop- [laughs]... at the end of a debate. He's, he's talked about that for a while. Yeah. [coughs] Um- Yeah. It's come up a time or two. 33:10 I mean, it's, it's not completely surprising that there'd be a, a- If we had-... a medical school professor in Vermillion that is, you know, on the liberal side of the spectrum. [laughs] Right? 33:24 But it was, it was a good question. I thought it worked out pretty well. Thir- they only had 30 seconds. They only had 30 seconds, and Hansen got that in. [laughs] Yeah. [laughs] How do you think... 33:34 You know, Hansen has been, just like Dodan, I guess, um, but Hansen especially has been sort of criticized as being sort of sh- lacking depth when it comes to the issues that he talks about. Like, 33:49 it's all about the social issues. Yeah. You know? And if you talk to, like, Toby Dodan's people, they say, "That was two years ago stuff. 33:55 Now, to win this race, you've gotta talk about f- putting food on the table," and basically, like, more, uh, populism issues, not necessarily, like, the, the red meat conservative stuff of two to three, four years ago. 34:08 Did, did he... You think he moved the needle on that a little bit? How did he do in those questions, in your opinion? In the non-abortion question. Well, he does very well. I mean, he, uh, he knows the issues, right? 34:22 Um, I think that he's, um, uh, he's clearly practiced this, right? So Dusty knows how to do this, too. But John has been very good at not getting down a too deep a rabbit hole, which you can't do in a debate, right? 34:39 If you start trying to explain what the, the nuances of the legislative process- Yeah... you're screwed. You know? Um, and so I thought that he did a pretty good job of answering. He sometimes got done early. 34:56 Like, he would leave a little time on the table, which tells me that he has that internal... I mean, there was a big clock. There was also an internal clock with him. Like, he knows when to stop. Yeah. Some people just 35:10 keep going and, uh- I didn't... You know, and Toby, and, uh, I would say this, too. Toby is very skilled at, at- He is... I mean, he's, he's not un- uh, the debates I've... 35:17 our, our debate, and then, um, you know, he's clearly a guy who is comfortable, uh, you know, speaking. 35:26 Uh, he, you know, for a guy who was not in, unlike the other three of them, who has not been in, you know, the public eye like that, uh, he comes off as very, very good, I think. Yeah. So. Um, it's the... 35:36 He's only got a few answers, right? [laughs] There's not any... The, the, the people who are good at this, like pivoting, right? Or whatever you wanna call it. Kristi Noem's- Yeah. She was great at this... the best. 35:51 She's the best. Like- She's gonna answer, no matter what the question is- She's gonna answer with something what she wants... she's gonna get right back to what she wants to say. 35:58 And Toby does that to, to a certain extent, 'cause it is always, "I'm the only one that's not a career politician." The career politicians will tell you that, that, that we need to spend money. 36:08 I'm gonna tell you we don't. Yeah. Kristi Noem learned that in 2010. Oh, God. She, uh, she was, she just could not- Was it- You just could not get her off of, uh, tho- those talking points, and, uh- She learned it, 36:22 it by then, at least. Yeah. Well, I think she got, I think she got a lot of, uh, a lot of tutoring- Could be... 36:29 uh, in the run-up to that race from people who knew what- Well, they saw a g- they saw a great opportunity, right? And- Yeah... the, the, uh, the... I don't- I can't claim any inside knowledge on this, but- I can. 36:41 [laughs] But my, my impression is that the, the, the machine helped her not mess that up. Oh, yeah. Yep. Is that fair? Oh, yeah. Yep. Coached them up. 36:51 Well, we need to get rolling, but I will say a little tidbit for the listeners. This is some... I'm never... 36:57 I will never write this, you know, 'cause it's just part of the back, the back, uh, the backstory of it all, but all four... So there's rules about bringing notes on stage. [laughs] Oh, this is great. 37:11 You should write about this. I've told this story many times already. Yeah, I'm not gonna go into great detail. That's probably good. But there were notes written on... 37:20 Well- We, we, we, we- We forgot, so the rules were-... have notebooks... 37:23 the rule, I'd gotten a tip that in the first or the second debate, which had a rule of no prepared notes on stage, that some of the candidates, or at least one, had kind of like, like in my, like, ninth grade algebra class- [laughs]... 37:37 a little cheat sheet- [laughs]... uh, with the formulas on it. Uh, so I was... Some of the other campaigns would watch for that, you know. Like, we're following rules. They should- Yep... follow rules. 37:48 So we had a pre-debate meeting. You can see the photos online on the dakotascott.com of the drawing the straws, you know, and they were on stage. That was the first time all day they were on stage. 38:00 They were all there at the same time, uh, except Matt Hurley came in as proxy for Toby Doden. That was weird. All four notepads that had nothing in them prior to their arrival. Then they... 38:13 We was up there for 20 minutes. Mm-hmm. They went back to their dressing rooms. I come back on stage- That was funny... and flip through every notebook. [laughs] Every one of them had writing in it- [laughs]... 38:23 that wasn't there before. And- And you, uh, but now tell you... Finish the story Well, I ripped them out. [laughs] And then I went and talked to the candidates. Oh, you did? I didn't know that. Yeah. And, uh, 38:38 just said, "Look, like- [laughs]... I don't wanna have to, like, embarrass anyone on stage- Right... on TV." Right. And one of the responses I got was, "Well, you said no prepared notes brought on stage." It's true. 38:52 Ooh. Yeah, like that's a pretty good point. That's a... That is. Which one said that? I'm not gonna say. Okay. So now- Well, that's pretty good... now there's the, the second variation on that theme, right? 39:03 Well, I, when I say the candidates, I mean, like, their teams- Yep... right? Their PR people. You can have that discussion with them fairly frankly, right? Yeah, yeah. Um, but 39:13 is then, uh, writing on your hand [laughs] a violation? I saw him writing on his hand as he walked on stage. Oh, really? Yeah. And, uh- Doden. Sure. [laughs] Well, it's, it's all there, yeah. It's all there. 39:30 All over the place. I saw it happening, and, uh, I don't know what I would've done if I didn't- No... immediately get distracted with something else. [laughs] You know, I- I was too... I was t- I had planned to watch 39:43 closely that these guys were gonna pull something out of their pockets- Yep... and things like that. But talk about pivoting. I had to pivot, and I didn't get to watch much of the debate s- [laughs]... 39:52 in real time, so I didn't get to see. Uh, but what, what should I have done? I figured it would sweat off in five minutes anyway. [laughs] And how much can you really... But the funny thing about that is I didn't notice. 40:08 I didn't know anything about it until I- I was getting... I got texted while the thing was going on. Oh, really? Yeah. Well, why would you do that? 40:15 Like, when you're, you're literally, like, headed- You could write it down when you got there... yeah, you're headed to the podium. I mean, he must- You know-... 40:22 there must've been writing going on before he got to the side stage. Yep. Let's wait, 'cause I brought those guys in there. Uh, it was, like, 7:00 minutes to 7:30. They were all... 40:35 I gathered them, and then, like, 3 minutes to 7:30, we went in, and then that's when I noticed Toby writing on his hand. There was too much on there to have just started writing. 40:46 [laughs] So, uh- It's pretty funny that, you know, then when I saw social media, I think it was the Democratic Party. I don't know who noticed it first, but- Yeah... 40:54 I saw they posted it with a, like, close-up of his hand. It was... That's the thing that i- in the aftermath, people are like, "How'd it go for you guys?" Uh, I, you know, "Great. Uh, you guys did a great job." 41:08 "Thank you." "What was the deal with the hand?" [laughs] Yeah, got away with one there. Yeah, it was all right. I don't think it, uh, changed the debate. If you ain't cheating, you ain't trying. [laughs] Ruben's ration. 41:21 But I just... If it's just bullet notes- Yep... you can write those down when they get up there. Yeah. You know? It's- I- it was funny. It gave it, it gave it a different... You know, that's the kind of thing if you're 41:32 not a Republican, right? You're like, "I can't vote in this damn thing anyway," so they're looking for other stuff. Stuff to entertain you with. I was amazed how many people in the audience, 'cause it was packed, 41:43 uh, weren't, you know, they're Democrats, Independents, whatever, just a wide range of people. Yeah. Well, it was, uh- A lot of Scout subscribers- Yeah... that were in the theater, so- That's good... you know? 41:54 It was, uh... No, it was, it was a... I mean, it was a unique event. Mm-hmm. We've not had an event, as you said, Joe, you did some research into the, uh, uh, like in a live theater... I mean, when's the last- Yeah... 42:05 did you find one, you know, not in any recent- A debate, like a, a gubernatorial? Yeah. No. Stay, right, not a theater. I mean, you go to small towns and counties, you'll find forums- Yeah... 42:13 and theaters and things like that. But to have, like, a- Yeah, a broadcast... televised in the theater, a live audience- Yeah... paying admission, um, and it was a success by, you know, uh, most measures. So the... 42:28 I wouldn't be surprised if we see our competitors, uh, in the television variety sort of run to do this next time. Yep. Um, and- It brings a lit- it brings an energy to the debate, I think- Yep. Yeah... 42:40 than, than doing it kind of in a studio. Oh, for sure. Yeah. I, I agree. I mean, when you're in a studio, you've all been in, in s- Yeah... TV studios and been on. It do- you don't... It's weird 42:52 Like, you know you're talking to somebody, but it's not like this. Right. Right? And y- you just have to kind of imagine [laughs] what it looks like. Right. And, and I don't know, it was, it was a blast. 43:05 People just loved it. They loved going. It was a hard ticket to get. [clapping] Yeah. Yeah. The, uh... And the Washington Pavilion staff was great. Oh, yeah. They did a great job, so a good t- shout-out to them. 43:14 That Belbas Theatre is perfect. Yeah. It was a good theater. I think it was the perfect setting, like size. Um, the post-r- debate was... Oh, I need to apologize. I mean, you... I... The Pavilion is a great partner. 43:27 Uh, there was some mishap communications here and there, and I've... I need to apologize to anybody I told to go to the bar because it's free drink. [laughs] Oh. It was free drinks, but apparently- Mm... 43:41 somebody dropped the ball, and the bartenders didn't know that. And- Oh... 43:44 a good, a, I don't know, anybody who was drinking until 9:00, until, like, more than halfway through the debate, was paying, and some of whom I sent them there with the information- Oh... 43:56 um, it was free, and then they get up there to order a drink only to have to pay. Yeah. So, if you were one of those people, I feel like a dick. [laughs] Uh, I'm not gonna... 44:03 I won't throw anybody else under the bus, but- Yeah. But, you know- I could. [laughs] But, you know, we should thank our sponsors- Yes... for that, and that- Uh, let's go down. Poet. Yep. I'll do mine, you do yours. 44:18 Uh, Poet, Soybean Association, Corn Growers Association, Mitchell Tech. Yep, and then we got Market Beat, Halman Insurance, so they... And AFP- And AFP... who paid for the booze. They got off. 44:32 Uh- They got off a little light. [laughs] They got off light. [laughs] 'Cause then they asked me, they're like, "Was, are doubles okay?" And I'm like, "Hell yeah, make 'em triples." 44:39 [laughs] Jen Beving and the team at AFP. Yeah. Good job. And then- Thank them... they were... She was great on the, uh- Yeah, she-... post-game report... you guys did a good job on the pod. 44:50 Uh, it was fun plucking people from the crowd and producing, trying to, like, kind of produce that. Uh- There was a great moment there when we had John on, and, and, like, uh- All his family... 45:00 every- everybody named Hanson was crowding around That was just his kids. [laughs] No, it was good. Uh, thanks. Uh, there was a few Beal distributed products I would say- There were... 45:11 y- we missed, we screwed up, though. The pho- what you were drinking was not that. Modelo. Isn't that Beal? I saw a Coors in there. That wasn't me. Okay, good. But it happens in the photo. 45:20 They were just, they were, they were just showing up everywhere. Yeah. All different kinds. I mean, they just- I know. I should've AI'd that in- into a bush. [laughs] That fake beer. Uh, no, it was great. 45:31 Um, everybody seemed to have fun. We had three of the four candidates hang out for a while there. Yeah. I saw the governor walking around with a glass of wine. I was- Yeah. 45:38 And he just comes by, and he's, when he's leaving, and he, like, we're out live. He's like, "All right, guys. See you later. See you later." Yeah. [laughs] There's a good photo of, uh, 45:48 of, uh, Tony Venhuizen, lieutenant governor- Yeah... talking to Toby- Yeah... with his... And then his dad, Keith, is there. His dad was there. Ah. To- Tony's. So, it was just a good... 46:00 I mean, we had to take a lot of people who, who, uh, whose supporters, you know, it humanized- Yeah... things a bit, I guess. Yeah. It's, it's... Hopefully- I like that... people got some humanity out of it. 46:09 I, I really like that, when you put everybody in a room. Yeah. And, you know, everybody knows each other. Yeah. So- Dan Ahlers was there... Dan Ahlers was there. Yeah. Came on the pod. Yeah. 46:20 Just came on the- It was good. So- Li- Linda Duba came on. Linda Duba. [laughs] Yeah, we, we've had a lot of folks say, "Oh, I hope you do one with Dan," and, uh, Dan Ahlers and whoever the nominee is. Yeah. 46:30 And then if there's other candidates, and sure would like to, uh, try, you know, but these candidates might be... 46:39 Well, let's face it, like, I don't know if some of the folks who are saying this, or of the minority party are like to admit or are aware that long-shot candidates love debates- Mm-hmm... 46:49 and fa- long sh- uh, very probable favorites do not like debates. No. And there's a, like, a scientific, factual, like, mathematical- Yeah... reason why. Yep. You know? 47:01 So, if you think they're gonna do five debates- No... or even three, if I'm the Republican nominee for- No... governor, I'm doing one. Yep. Uh, mad. Get, get a request in now. Yeah. Uh, well, the- [laughs]... 47:15 the pain of childbirth is not- [laughs]... enough yet to, like, really get- We'll see how this one on Monday night goes. We didn't even get to talk about the mayoral debate, and we gotta go. 6:00 PM- Tuesday. 47:26 Tuesday, yeah, May 5th, 6:00 PM, at the VFW building behind the, uh, Alliance. Yep. Uh, we're gonna have all five candidates for the Sioux Falls mayoral race there. 47:38 It's, as of right now, it's law enforcement and public safety people and their families only attending. Mm-hmm. I need to get an update on... I mean, these things aren't going as fast as the gubernatorial one. 47:49 So, if we have room, we'll announce that Monday. Mm-hmm. S- uh, open it up to a few more people, uh, but we'll see. It's gonna be a public safety f- focused debate. Mm-hmm. I'd imagine we'll find ways to, uh, 48:04 get the questions to kind of straddle two areas- Mm-hmm... of policy maybe, but nonetheless, it'll be good. So- There's a lot that goes into public safety. Yeah. 48:11 Well, it's been in the new- it's been in the news this week, too... Yep. There's a lot to talk about, and good Lord willing, and the creek don't rise, you'll be able to watch it on our websites. 48:20 But, you know, we're gonna do a lot of testing beforehand. I have all my gear with me for my weekend in Deadwood. Yep. So, I'm gonna... I'm... If you maybe watch our Y- YouTube channel- [laughs]... 48:31 or our website, maybe you'll catch live, live shots of Joe Sneve at the banquet. [laughs] This, this is not, uh, broadcast on television. Television. So that- That'll make it look way better... 48:43 that'll, that increases the probability of, um, it making it to our website. You know, and maybe- So- We... Yeah Television's a lot Yeah It's a lot s- Yeah, you know We can do this all day. 48:59 I mean, we can do- There's a lot of bu- I couldn't. And you know, uh- [laughs] 49:03 I know there was probably some people, like, that listen to this podcast, and people who have come and been guests on and see how we're s- we set up and how chaotic it is sometimes here- Yeah... 49:12 in this room, and it's literally just turning on a computer- [laughs]... and plugging in a mic. Like, how are these guys gonna pull off a televised debate? Um, so I could... 49:22 You know, I couldn't even begin to pretend like I could push the right buttons for- Yeah... getting a broadcast going, so. And then you get... 49:30 But yeah, it was a, it was a lot of balls, I mean, in the air, and the first time we've done it. Took a lot of balls to do it. [laughs] It did. [laughs] Well, we could... 49:38 You know, it wouldn't have happened without you guys and your connections. It's not like, you know, so. Well, thanks. But- No, I, I hope we get to do it again sometime. Yeah. And, uh- Stay tuned... we will. We will. 49:50 I'm making a promise right now, so. On the platform of your choosing. The, uh... Well, speaking of, we got some news on that too, on platforms, but we will announce that at another day. Yeah. All right. 50:01 Thanks to, uh, Juna and Beal. Support them, 'cause they support South Dakota independent local journalism. Uh- Good luck, boys, and good luck, Sue... check out siouxfallslive.com. Uh, good coverage over there. Thank you. 50:16 You guys kind of pick up the gauntlet of the Sioux Falls city beat sometimes when we're spread thin, so. Hey, I'm gonna say this. Go to Megan Raposa's site, 'cause she's the only one that's... 50:26 She's done an amazing job- She's amazing... Sioux Falls Simplified on the city council stuff. Just incredible amount of work that she put into that. We both work out a startup. I see how much ho- she... 50:37 time and effort she put into that. I'm just going to, I'm just gonna make, like, a portal on my site. 50:42 If you wanna know about city council candidates, this is where to go, 'cause people do need to know, and I'm not gonna get to it. Yeah, there's a lot going on. So, yeah. All right. Good to see you fellas. 50:51 Yep, good to see you. Have a great weekend. News tips welcome. Thanks. 50:54 [upbeat rock music] If you wanna understand what's really happening in South Dakota, start with The Dakota Scout, South Dakota's leading journal of politics and culture, locally owned and printed in Sioux Falls. 51:25 Founded in 2022 by veteran reporters Jonathan Ellis and Joe Sneve, the Scout brings more than 40 years of combined experience and a reputation for relentless, fair-minded reporting. 51:37 From Sioux Falls City Hall to the state capital in Pierre, The Dakota Scout delivers breaking news, investigative reporting, and serious political coverage without the spin. 51:48 Its Lewis and Clark-inspired logo reflects its mission, charting new territory in a new era of South Dakota journalism. 51:56 Subscribe today for full access to stories delivered straight to your inbox, plus The Scouting Lounge podcast. $7 a month at thedakotascout.com. The Dakota Scout. Stay informed. [upbeat music]
