Transcript 0:00 Ryan, come smell this. I'm not falling for that again. Hey, folks, have you ever had the displeasure of opening up a bed in a box? It's really stinky. Why? Because of all the toxicity in the foams they use. 0:13 At Juna, we only use safe, hypoallergenic, non-toxic materials. Even the glue we use between our foam layers is safe. A lot of companies use aerosol glues that are banned in over 17 states. 0:26 And have you ever slept on a foam or hybrid mattress and just kept sinking, and then kept getting hotter and hotter throughout the night? Our beds don't do that. 0:35 A Juna mattress supports you properly and actually pulls heat away from your body naturally. When we say we use the best materials, we mean it. Come try one out. There's never any pressure to buy. Not one ounce. 0:47 'Cause that, well, it'd be pretty stinky. We build them by hand and deliver with love. Juna Sleep Systems, 41st and Grange in Sioux Falls. You're gonna love the way you sleep. We guarantee it. We guarantee it. Juna. 1:00 Introducing Bud Light Seltzer Hard Soda. Classic cola, cherry cola, citrus soda, and orange soda. [can opening] You hear that? It's seltzer with the pop of soda. Flavor! All with zero sugar. 1:15 Bud Light Seltzer Hard Soda, the loudest flavors ever. [can opening] [soda pouring] Ah. Enjoy responsibly. Anheuser-Busch Bud Light Seltzer Hard Soda, IRC Beers, St. Louis, Missouri. 1:27 Distributed by Beal Distributing, Sioux Falls, South Dakota. 1:31 [upbeat music] Welcome to The Scouting Lounge, a podcast of the Dakota Scout Newspaper based in Sioux Falls, South Dakota. 1:54 My name's Jonathan Ellis. [can opening] That's my Beal distributed product, and I was fortunate to be able to sleep last night on my Juna Sleep System mattress, 'cause I got home from Pierre. 2:06 And we have a special, special guest with us, my old boss, Matt Merritt. How you doing? [laughs] Doing well. Let me crack mine open, too. [can opening] Busch Light. Busch Light. Yep. Yeah. Thanks for having me on. 2:17 I appreciate it. Yeah. Thanks for being here. Um, Joe have... Are... Is not here, our uh, other, other host. He is in India right now. Well, that's all right. I think we can- Yeah... 2:30 I think we can fill the airspace between the two of us. I'm sure we can. Well, anyway, we're... Before we started, we were reminiscing about the old days at the Argus Leader, weren't we? Yep. Yep. 2:38 Those were, uh, those were back in the gr- back in the, back in the how... Uh, what would you say? I mean, the gravy days of journalism. The gravy days. Yeah. 2:46 Yeah, the glory day- yeah, back in the, back in the 2000s when it was a full and bustling newsroom with everybody had a, had their own beat and yeah. It's a different environment, for sure, but, uh... 2:57 Yeah, you guys are, you guys are carrying the torch here pretty well, so. Well, it's a different media landscape. And, uh, anyway, well, that's not why you're here. But we were reminiscing about those- [laughs]... 3:06 those glory days at the Argus Leader before the great recession, right? That's- Yep... 3:11 yeah, so the editors would always have their, like, their weekly big lunches and stuff to, like, to, like, plot what was gonna be in the, you know, newspapers, look ahead and the big, the big planning sessions. 3:22 Were you part of those lunches? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, all those planning sessions. Yeah, absolutely. Uh, uh, come in there and, and my goal was always to, to keep, keep everyone else, uh... 3:34 I'd always try to keep a couple stories in my pocket that nobody else knew about, you know? That was... You always do that. [laughs] And it was usually yours, I think. 3:40 Uh, you know, 'cause- [laughs] So I'd try to, try to keep a Jonathan Ellis story in the pocket and not tell him what you're working on. 3:45 And then when inevitably at the end of the night when something fell apart, it'd be like, "Ah, we might have something for you here." [laughs] "Let me go, let me go check on something." 3:53 And, and yeah, then we'd, we'd pull some magic out from Jonathan and throw that in there to- I-... save the day. I always would have... Yeah, I'd always hold onto a story. 4:01 Would not, would not let my editors know like what I had- Yeah. [laughs]... just in case, you know. But anyway. 4:06 You know, and Fri- Well, the, the, the interesting thing about that, that era too is that Fridays were the shittiest days, because you had to have content for Saturday, Sunday, and Monday. Yep. You know? 4:15 And so Fridays were always kind of a ba- you know, it was a grinder day to get all, everything done for those papers. But anyway, many moons ago. Yep. Many moons ago. Yep. Anyway, but we wouldn't... 4:24 We didn't bring you here to talk about journalism. What are you up to? Well, uh, thanks for asking, Jonathan. I'm over at, uh, I'm over at Paulson, a marketing agency in Sioux Falls here. 4:35 Uh, I do public relations over there, so we, we focus on agriculture and energy clients. Um, some in South Dakota, you know, most of them, uh, abroad in the Midwest and other areas as well. 4:47 Um, and, and so I, yeah, I, I still get to be involved with the media. Yeah. Still get to pretend I'm an editor. 4:54 Um, you know, try and, try and find the news in, in whatever, uh, uh, a client might be, might be doing, and try and make it... Uh, I, I always say I got two clients all the time, right? Mm-hmm. 5:04 I got the, the client that actually, you know, has something they wanna talk about, and then I actually have to help them make it interesting enough so that you guys care, right? Sure. You know? So, um, 5:15 that's, that's the job. I still get to, still get to be involved, and it's kind of fun to be able to visit you and, and today be able to- Yeah... to, to speak myself instead of, uh, helping other people talk. Yeah. 5:24 Well, I, you know, I was at the... Covering the legislature, and a huge issue, uh, in this session was data centers. Mm-hmm. And there were some efforts to, uh... 5:37 There were some efforts on one, one side, uh, to sort of offer tax incentives, uh, on the equipment that data centers would invest- Yeah... 5:47 you know, billions of dollars in a, in a data center of equipment, and they don't wanna pay, you know, the sa- the sales tax. So that was a big issue. That was the losing side. They did not prevail. And in fact- Yep... 5:57 uh, more regulations went into place to sort of, yeah, as, as, uh, some of the, you know, Chris Carr would say, to prot- you know, protect-... uh, consumers and landowners and such from data centers. 6:10 Uh, Bill of Rights, I think is what he called it, his Landowner Bill of Rights. Yeah. Uh, anyway, but you guys are, you guys have been, uh, you have a publication that you guys have put out. 6:19 A dr- and because you gu- so I mean, the, there are some very real concerns, uh, out there. I mean, b- lawmakers heard those. I mean, you've had city councils. 6:28 Um, and I've talked to some people in Dual County, and it's interesting 'cause your public, y- you, what you got, you reference this Dual County- Yeah... Dual County incident- Yeah... 6:37 in which you have, you know, 150, 200 people show up to a meeting- Yeah... uh, in a small c- county like that, and they're very concerned about what's gonna happen there. 6:45 And, uh, so what are, I mean, like, what are the issues that you gu- uh, you, you guys see that, that you've, you've recognized that need to be- Sure... be addressed? Yeah. 6:56 So, you know, you mentioned we put together, um, 7:00 uh, uh, we published something recently and, yeah, we, we put together a, uh, you know, what we're calling a field guide, um, something that, that we hope is helpful for businesses and, and really down the line for rural communities as well. 7:16 Mm. Um, and, and what it is is, is sort of a breakdown of, of what are the types of people that have concerns in some of these rural communities when a project tries to come in, right? 7:26 What are some of the, the different sorts of values and concerns that you need, that you should be paying attention to? 7:31 And, and we hope this is, is a guide that can help people do a better job of listening when they come in, to avoid some of these situations where we have protests, we have, I mean, you know, new laws being written because of all the- Right... 7:46 the, uh, anger and, and frustration that, that we're seeing. Um, you know, ch- changing the very, you know, makeup of our legislature. Uh, you know, this, this has, has huge impacts. Um, 7:59 and so we put this together, but, but this is really just one piece in, in something I think we're trying to do more broadly, which is just change the way that conversation's going. 8:07 'Cause like, like you said, there's a lot of different concerns out there. You hear about water, you hear about noise, you hear about, you know, uh, the rights of landowners. 8:16 You hear about all these different issues and, and certainly, you know, those are all important considerations. But, but I, 8:23 you know, in listening to some of these, and, and you mentioned Dual County, I, I went up to Dual County and, and went to their, 8:30 um, one of their community meetings just to, to try to better understand where, where they're coming from. 8:35 Was this a county commission meeting, or was it a- No, it was, uh, it was really just the town meeting where they were getting together to kind of organize their thoughts and feelings about the data center, um, and a number of other things- Mm... 8:46 you know, up there that, that... I know there's a transmission project and a power project and, you know, all these things that are coming up. 8:52 Well, yeah, it's, it's kind of, from the people I've talked to there, that, that it's, yeah, it's not just the data center, but it's just all of these things- It's every-... coming at once, right? Yeah. It is. And, and, 9:01 you know, the... You can take each specific concern and, and, you know, whether it's valid or not, 9:07 I guess my takeaway coming from those is that it doesn't matter what your answer is, and it doesn't matter how good your answer is, because I, I don't think water use is at the core of the pro- of the concerns in these communities. 9:18 I, I, I think it's a communications issue, and it's a trust issue. Mm-hmm. You know? And if you don't trust me, I can't give you a good answer to your concerns about water use. Right. 9:29 If you don't believe what I'm saying, I can't give you a good answer about noise or about the k- kind of taxes that are gonna come in or the jobs. Like, none of that matters if you don't 9:41 think my words are worth anything. If you don't trust me, if you don't think I care about you at all, we're, we're screwed from the beginning. Sure. And, and so I, 9:51 I mean, at the core, this is a c- I really think this is a communications problem. And that's why, that's why Paulson 9:57 decided to dip their toes in and start trying to be a part of this conversation and help people do better, because we're communicators, and building trust. And, and you're obviously in the ag world. 10:07 I mean, that's what we- Yeah... yeah, so that. Yeah. Uh, and it's interesting, c- I haven't read the whole, the whole manual, field guide, I guess, as you're calling it, but, you know, you're... It's a, what it, 10:19 what it has said is that, look, I mean, there are some real, real barriers that you gotta get through here in addre- in, like, addressing concerns. Yeah. You know what I mean? 10:27 And trust is the big thing, so how does, how do you, how do you get... I mean, if it, if, if people assume that these are just, you know, behind the scenes, run by, you know, big tech companies- Yeah... 10:38 billionaires and such, I mean, how do you... They're not gonna trust. I mean, how do you get past that? Well, I'm... A, you know, I think one of the first things is, is coming in early. I mean, 10:51 talking to a community and, and listening to them and, and, and, and asking those questions needs to be a part of the site selection process, right? That's not, that's not the eighth thing on your list. 11:00 And I think what, what we see a lot of the times is projects come in and they're, you know, 60% baked before anybody hears about it. Mm. 11:06 And there's a lot of NDAs being signed, and it's like, "Well, let's get our, get as much as we can negotiated before we, before anyone finds out about this." And, and, and so I think it's, it's coming in with that. 11:16 If these businesses would come in with that transparency and, and that, the, a little bit of forethought and, and open ears, I think is, is the first step that, that this is. 11:26 'Cause I, I think what we see is you come in and you got your messages about your benefits, right, of, of X, Y, or Z project, and, and you haven't even stopped to listen to what these communities' problems are. 11:40 Like, I'm offering you solutions before I even know what your problems are. Mm-hmm. Right? 11:43 So, so it's, I think it's coming in early, it's making that a part of the site selection process, and, and it's talking to people at the outset and saying, "Listen, what's your vision for this town? 11:52 What's your vision for this county? What do you, you know, what are, what are your problems? What's happening?" And, and really figuring out what makes, makes these communities go, where they wanna be- 12:08 Then you take a look at your project and say, you know, "Are there opportunities with what we're doing that's gonna also help this community achieve its goals?" I think if you go in that way, 12:19 you're gonna have a lot more success. And, and I know companies are, are nervous to go in early. 12:26 They're nervous to talk about things before they got everything set up, um, because they see some of these protests, and they see the opposition, and they see the, the rallies and the Facebook groups and the things that, that arise. 12:37 And so I think they're keeping their heads down, and, and when they do that, then it just causes more people to have rallies and create Facebook groups. 12:45 And then the next business sees that and they are even quieter, and it's, it's a feedback loop and somebody needs to, you know, stick a, stick a twig in the tire to stop this damn thing from moving. Um, yeah. 12:58 Well, it, it's, it... Uh, some of it, okay, this is... I, and I'm agnostic on the issue. Sure. I mean, I, I recognize... I, I personally think that there are places for data centers, you know. Yeah. 13:06 And there are, and, and I'm, I'm... I've talked to some people in Duval County about their, and the, their, they oppose it, and they're like, "Well, this is..." 13:14 They wanna build this where people hunt and things like- Mm-hmm... community. It, they see it as very disruptive to their way of life, and I'm very sympathetic to that. Yeah. Um, but I will say that they're... 13:23 After one of the legislative, uh, uh, hearings on this, this, this issue, uh, one of the sales, one of the sales guys there, and I'm not gonna name names or anything, but one of the people who was proponents of it just struck me as... 13:35 And I sent this to a, I sent this episode to one of the lawmakers, but the, the classic Simpsons, the mon- monorail guy- [laughs]... just comes into town. [laughs] "I got a monorail." I mean... 13:45 [laughs] Uh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a classic. I mean, it just kinda came off that way. Yeah. You know? Like, and I, and I can't see that that- Monorail. Monorail, monorail. Monorail. And I can't see that that's, uh... 13:55 I mean, I, I does, that doesn't seem like- Yeah... that g- would go over real well in, in some, some places. Sure. Right? So. I, 14:04 you know, a- a- and nor in this document, and nor in, in, and we're gonna keep, you know, we're hopefully put, put out some more stuff, do some more things to, to keep this conversation going. 14:14 We're, we're not saying Duval County should have a data center necessarily. You know that. Well, they're gonna get one probably, but it's just gonna be- [laughs] 14:21 As, as, as, as, uh, the Senate majority leader said yesterday in his part, in his press conference, he was on the losing side of that- Yeah... 'cause he thinks, "Uh, yeah, they're gonna get one. 14:28 It's just gonna be 1,500 feet across or, yeah, across the border." Across the border, right. Yeah. Yeah, so it's gonna be there and, and, and, uh- That is an issue, yeah... 14:35 and he said that, uh, he said that, he predicted that the Brookings School District would absorb all of the st- You know what I mean. Yeah. Mm-hmm. 14:41 The problems would come to South Dakota, but the actual revenue would go to- None of the money... that's, that was his prediction, but. I, I mean, and that's, that's possible. And I, I, 14:50 I mean, yes, I mean, that, I think that's, that's an a- that's certainly an aspect to, of, of it. I mean, you, you know, 14:55 for some people are upset about AI and, you know, we shouldn't support something that's gonna be taking whatever jobs, maybe my job, maybe your job, who knows? Um, but you know, stopping a, stopping a, a, 15:08 something in South Dakota isn't gonna keep AI from doing anything. It's just gonna be those jobs go and we don't get anything in return. Um, 15:15 but I, you know, again, no, I don't, I'm not, you know, I don't necessarily think Duval County should, you know, 100% have a data center. I'm not saying that, or any of these projects. 15:24 Like, certainly there's, there's projects that don't fit and, and I think having those early conversations is gonna help these companies figure out what those... You know, if it's not a fit too. If it works. 15:34 If it fits, yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's like these guys really don't want this. You know, maybe I go- Well, go to the-... 50 miles down the road and find somebody else. 15:41 Um, but I will say, I mean, some of these things gotta work, right? And the way we see it now is I, I don't see anything getting through and, and I... 15:50 That tells me it's more than just we don't like data centers, or we don't like pipelines, or we don't like, you know, solar farms or wind towers or whatever, whatever the project, transmission lines. 16:02 You know, I mean, something, something's gotta get through because, I mean, you, we've all, we all see, we've all been in South Dakota long enough to know what, what's happening with rural America. The trends 16:18 are moving towards bigger farms, smaller downtowns, fewer people, right? Mm-hmm. And, and, it, you know, it, rural America needs investment and it needs a little bit of growth. 16:29 It needs, it needs something if it's gonna maintain what it has right now. Mm-hmm. And, and I guess what, what I, you know, I've, I've talked a little bit about what companies need to do. 16:38 I, I think communities need to have a pretty clear vision of what they want, where they think this is heading, what needs to happen in order to get, get them there, 16:50 and then when these projects come, look at it through that lens, right? You know, I, I mean, if a company wants to come in and listen, you should know what you wanna say, right? Mm-hmm. 16:59 Like, you should, you should have a vision for where you go. Mm-hmm. And, and that is one thing. You know, I, like I said, I'll, I'll go back to that meeting I was at in Duval County. 17:06 One of the speakers even said, you know, "One of the things I think we all need to do is figure out what we think this community needs to look like in the future." 17:14 And, and that, you know, that resonated with me a lot because, 'cause that's the question I had coming out was like, what does fit, I guess, is the question. What helps you meet your goals? Mm-hmm. And so I, I, I 17:27 hope these communities 17:29 have a clear vision of what they think that future looks like and, and are doing something to try and attract those kinds of businesses, or at least are open to those opportunities and, and instead of starting from a no, start from a let's see- Mm-hmm... 17:42 position on that, right? Like, yeah, okay, we, we do have some things. 17:46 Maybe I don't want a big data center over there, but maybe if I also get a new, you know, if our community has a new school and better opportunities, or we have a program that pays for higher ed, trade school, and whatever, you know, for our kids, and we got, uh, our parks look new. 18:03 And e- I mean, at a certain point it might be like, "Yeah, this is actually benefiting my community too, and it's worth it." Right? And, and e- even if it's not a ag development, I- Yeah. I- 18:17 I, I just, uh, you know, I just think every- p- both sides are starting from a really bad position and somebody's gotta break that cycle. 18:25 Well, you know what's not a bad position is having a Busch Light in your hand- [laughs] I agree with that... and sleeping on a Junus Sleep System mattress. Come on alone, head for the mountains of Busch Beer. 18:38 Head for the mountains. It's cold and it's smooth, and it's waiting for you. Come on, head for the mountains of Busch Beer. Head for the mountains of Busch. 18:52 Head for the mountains of Busch Light Beer. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2022. Anheuser-Busch, Busch, and Busch Light Beer. St. Louis, Missouri. Beale Distributing, Sioux Falls, South Dakota. 19:03 We could have saved the three bears a lot of time. Just Right Mattresses, built by mattress nerds with a lifetime comfort commitment. We build them by hand and deliver with love. 19:14 Junus Sleep Systems in Sioux Falls and online at junussleep.com. Thanks again to Junus Sleep Systems. 19:21 Damn good mattress, which I was really happy to sleep on last night when I got back from Pierre, South Dakota at the end of the la- legislative session, where we only spent $7.5 billion, which would buy a hell of a lot of Beale Distributed products. 19:35 [laughs] Thanks again to them. Uh, welcoming back to our podcast, and Matt Merritt, we're talking with you. We've been talking, I guess, about data centers and stuff like that, and rural communities- Yeah... 19:48 the needs there. Uh, I'm kinda curious 'cause you mentioned, uh, you mentioned earlier, uh, about pipelines. Yep. 19:54 And I'm c- you know, there's, there's just, it seems like there's a lot of skepticism in, in rural South Dakota about these types of projects. 20:02 And for me, it seems like I- I'm kinda cur- you're, you're, you've been working in this, this lane for a long time. Mm-hmm. 20:08 Um, but I really notice with pipelines that this sort of, that sort of built up this defensiveness out there to projects. And, I mean, what's the origin story there, I mean, from your perspective? 20:18 Was it pipelines or were other things going on before that? Um, you know, so I, I... Yes, I think, I think the pipelines, um, cranked this up to 11. Um- Cranked it up to 11... 20:31 I- Because we had, 'cause we'd had, we'd had oil. I mean, the Keystone Pipeline- Right... came through. You know, I know you actually went through- Yeah... on, on land I, I would pheasant hunt on. Yeah. 20:38 You know, so very familiar with. But, um, but that went through. I mean- Yep... uh, but they already had, they had eminent domain, you know? Yep. So. Yeah, and so yeah, that's, I mean, it, I, yes, I would agree. 20:49 I think the, I think the attitudes have, have shifted in the, in the last few years. Um, it, you know, I, some of these issues aren't entirely new. 20:57 I mean, you know, I've, I've worked on projects, you know, like I said at the beginning, we're in, we're in energy and we're in ag, and, and, and so a lot of these types of projects, 21:06 um, overlap or else we're, you know, with things we're doing or we're even in, directly involved in, in various things and, and I'm, I'm, you know, we, we sign agreements where we can't necessarily name... 21:17 I'm not gonna name clients or anything like that, but I've been involved in, in successful and unsuccessful projects along the way. So, so I've... 21:24 This is a, this is a, an issue that's near and dear to my heart and, and has been for a number of years. Um, and, and something, you know, I, I previously I worked at Poet. 21:34 So, you know, I, I was in the ethanol industry for a long time too. Right. And that was, you know, the r- really exciting thing is that, that, you know, I think that shows how good 21:46 projects can really revitalize rural areas. Because you go into some of these towns that do have an ethanol plant- Ethanol plant, yeah... and you do see the difference, you know? There's, I mean, there are more jobs. 21:56 There are. You go into those, those plants and you see people who are from there working there. Mm. And, and, 22:02 and you see farmers who get excited about having those customers, uh, having that, uh, place to buy grain or sell their grain. 22:09 So, you know, the, uh, coming at it from a point where I've seen the positive impact of rural, uh, development I think has, has shaped my feelings on this quite a bit. 22:18 But then yes, certainly I, I think what, what we saw with, with some of the carbon pipeline issues, um, seemed to galvanate, galvanize, um, a lot of people in s- in South Dakota in particular. 22:32 Um, I think we see it a little bit even too though in Iowa and North Dakota and some of those areas. There's, there's some of that that's popped up as well. But it seems like it's worse here. I mean, I, I- It does. 22:41 I would agree... I, I, I shouldn't say worse, like 'cause I don't wanna characterize it as that. Sure. 22:44 But I, I, uh, more, more vociferous or more, there's more, there's more opposition it seems like here than in other places to some of these projects. Yeah. I mean, I'd say, and, and why, I'm gonna call it worse. 22:54 Why, why, why, so- It's, it's, it's the, the way they interact is not healthy I think. I, I mean anyone. 23:00 And, and I, and I'm not just calling out rural areas for that, I'm calling out, you know, the folks that, that, that they're interacting with as well, the businesses too. Well, well it's interesting. 23:08 I mean, if you r- uh, you know, I think, uh, uh, Tony Kaiser, who's one, one of my rep- uh, representatives in District 40, I think he said that, uh, the pipeline issue is the number one issue. 23:19 And this is freaking south, this is, this is south. Mm-hmm. This is Sioux Falls. I mean, why, why- Mm-hmm... you know, it's not just rural. I mean, it's, it's kinda... Um, and it was a big issue West River. 23:28 Uh, West River- Mm-hmm... wasn't that, it was not gonna be a pipeline anywhere near, you know? But people- Right... but I talked to ranchers out there and they're pissed off about it. Yeah. 23:34 Um, but so why, how did this happen? You know, it's... Yeah, I, I mean, I, 23:41 I will say that, you know, on the pipeline front, I, it, some of the things that we talked about in the first half of this and, and what we kinda have- Sure... in this, this field guide that we put out, um, 23:52 you know, I, it doesn't seem like that was the process that was followed in the pipeline. It, I, I mean, frankly, you know, I, I, 24:00 I don't think it was a, a matter of, of coming in early and talking to these communities and sort of getting that buy-in and understanding where the concerns were and saying, "Well, maybe we need to change the route," you know? 24:10 And, and, and, and looking for those opportunities to ensure that r- this development as it was happening was also- Making these communities feel like, like, like they were benefiting from it as well. 24:26 Um- Well, I got, I got the sense that they, uh, felt like they could... Well, they had, they had the power of eminent domain for, in, in state law. That had gotten put into, into the, uh, into state law. Yep. 24:37 And so I almost felt like, you know, they're like, "Well, sc- " like they could be big oil, too. Like, we can- Right... we can do this thing, and just we'll just ram it through because we can do this. [laughs] Right? 24:48 Well, it's all what happened there. [laughs] I, yeah, I mean, I mean- But Summit Carbon Solutions was kind of the, the, the, I mean, not the only player in this, in this realm- No, no... 24:59 but, but they were sort of the most p- prominent. Yep. Uh, and they took a, from a, from a PR perspective of your world now- Oh, yeah... uh, they, they took it on the nose. They... Yes. Uh, absolutely. 25:11 I don't think anyone, I don't think they would deny that, um, that they, they took it on the nose on the PR front for sure. And, and, um, yeah. 25:21 And I, I do, I do think that galvanized, um, some folks, and I think, you know, we see some of the same folks that were involved in that pipeline issue showing up at the data center discussions and showing up at, at these other ones. 25:33 You know, it's, it i- it is, that group is remaining active- Mm-hmm... and I think having a pretty big impact on, on our state. 25:41 Um, I think some of their goals are, are in line with some of the stuff that we were talking about. Yeah. Transparency, early engagement. 25:49 You know, I, I would hope that, that they would get behind, um, you know, a, a, a development project and, and, and perhaps they would. You know? I mean, I'd, I'd love to talk to them 26:00 about some of the things that, that, that we're talking about here, too, because this is not... You know, we're not doing this so that businesses can succeed. 26:06 We're doing this so that rural America can succeed, uh, you know, and, and businesses are part of rural America, you know, and the people who live there [laughs] are also a part of rural America. 26:16 So I, I think both need to, to benefit. Well, go- going back to the dual county situation, because it's kind of a perfect example on data centers- Yeah... 26:25 one of the, you ta- you know, one of the, one of the opponents I talked to was concerned that this is going to ruin farming in that area because it would drive up land prices. 26:40 And actually, she testified at, in the legislature- Mm-hmm... about this, um, and that she had a daughter, uh, who was 16 and wanted to become a farmer, uh, family farm. And I- Yeah... 26:50 think she said she's a fifth-generation fa- farmer, and that they, she was concerned that land speculators would come in and buy up the land and, and, uh- Right... 26:58 because one data center typically means more data centers, they kind of cluster or something. Sure. So I, I mean, I, I, I thought, again, going back to this, we wanna preserve the w- the community we have. Yeah. 27:09 Um, if, if the, if the community is sort of, uh, not interested, then, then like you said, you know, 50 miles down the road, right? I mean, you gotta- Right... go somewhere else, so. Yeah. 27:20 And but yeah, I mean, the, the, the, the issue of, uh, being able to, like, take care of the property taxes for everybody, you know? Yeah. 27:26 I mean, that seems like a, a potent issue for, on the, on behalf of the data centers, right? If you can convince people like, "Well, no, this is- Right... this is gonna pay all this property tax." You know? 27:35 So I don't know. It's an interesting problem. Um, but again, it seems like it's one that's somewhat unique to South Dakota because I think they're being built in a lot of other places outside of the state. 27:46 Yeah, you're right. And, and we had, um, um, y- i- South Dakota is definitely unique in this. 27:53 Um, I mean, some of these issues I think exist elsewhere in the Midwest as well, but you know, we just had a couple folks from Paulson were at the Power Exchange, which is a big energy conference. 28:03 It was at, I don't know, I think it was in Nashville this year. 28:06 And they, they were texting us some slides from that, from a presentation, yeah, and it showed data center development, and it had all the states up there and, and there was a big hole- [laughs] I'd love to see-... 28:18 on South Dakota. [laughs] I'd love to see that slide. [laughs] I can, I can pull it. I can... [laughs] Yeah. Um, a- so it's, uh, I'll show you that slide when we're done here. Um, but it, yeah. 28:27 So I mean, yeah, South Dakota is unique and, and I saw some of the same stuff as we were putting this, this document together on, on other sorts of things like, you know, uh, renewable energy development and stuff like that. 28:38 And, and, and again, it was, it was, you go around the state and, and like the dollars invested were, were many times larger than what it was in South Dakota. So, and that, and I think, I don't think that's a... 28:52 So that tells me that this isn't just a issue that was sparked necessarily by the pipelines, too, right? Mm-hmm. I mean, 'cause some of this stuff was happening long before that ever came into play. 29:03 Um, you know, uh, some of these projects were, were, were being tried and failing, um, before that. Um, but yeah, the, I, I do think the attitude has, has shifted even worse in, in recent years. 29:17 But there's opportunity and, and you know, when you look at, at, at rural areas and you look at where's the opportunity for growth, I mean, energy is a big oppor- Mm-hmm. 29:30 You know, I, that's the area where there's the biggest opportunity for growth, I think, is that energy, uh, uh, power, right? And 'cause we need it. This country needs it. 29:42 So how can we do it in a way where these communities feel like they're not being exploited or they're not being, you know... What's the phrase? Uh, ah, I think, uh, it's in here somewhere. 29:53 I, I gotta look at- In the, in the field guide? I have it in the field guide and I can't... It's, it's on the tip of my tongue. 29:58 But it, it's this, this idea that, that big cities, um, um, or big companies sort of see rural America as something to exploit or, or something to take resources to feed into urban areas. Right. 30:13 And, and I think that's a feeling that many in rural America have for very real reasons. Um, and- 30:22 And, and so we need to make sure that, that as we're looking at some of these projects these, these folks are bringing in, is having some of these ideas, that, 30:31 that we're aware of that dynamic, that, uh, that feeling, and that we're, we're making sure that, that, that these, these folks aren't feeling like they're being exploited. Hmm. 30:42 Well, uh, it's an interesting issue, and, uh, we're gonna hear a lot more about it I suppose. Uh- But, but, but I guess, you know, actually maybe we won't because if the tax, if the- [laughs] 30:53 If the tax incentives aren't here, if the, you know, if it's, if it's prohibitively expensive to do- Right... uh, maybe we, we, that, that, that, that PDF that you got sent will be like that for, you know... Yeah. 31:04 Well, hopefully not. I mean, I, I do, I do cringe a little bit when we see policies that handcuff us for future development, you know? I mean, it's, it's nice to have all the options available. 31:18 Um, so you know, if we can, if we can sort of keep an open mind about things going forward and, and... Um, I mean, e- Well, this is, this is, I mean, interesting- Oh, we're talking about the tax, yeah. Yeah. 31:31 But, but, uh, the, uh, uh, but I was just at a, be- before we started recording this, before you, uh... I was at a, a, an event that Dusty Johnson had, and he had- Yeah... 31:41 he had a couple dozen, three dozen CEO types in town, economic develop- or a- at a round table to discuss his plan for giving sort of, of revamping a small loan program to give, you know, small entrepreneurs, you know, shots at, like, $25,000 invest. 31:56 Things like that- Yeah... kind of growing from the bottom up here. Well, that's cool. 31:58 And, uh, but that, but the data center issue did come up a little bit, um, you know, from some of the people who, um, are concerned about the, the, um, backlash I guess, you know- Mm-hmm... a- a- about it. 32:12 Um, and even, even here in Sioux Falls where you would think, like, well, a data center in Sioux Falls is kinda, like... That doesn't, th- that seems like maybe for some people a no-brainer. 32:20 In an industrial park somewhere. Right, right, right. Right? I mean, how does that, how does that bother somebody? 32:24 But again, you, you, uh, you get, you talk to people, and people in my family, uh, they're concerned or they've heard about the water issue. 32:32 They've heard about the ele- you know, the electricity, things, you know, rising and things like that. Right. So, I mean, I guess those are valid concerns, and I, I mean, uh, y- y- you know, how do you address those? 32:42 You know, that, that's gonna be, you start, I guess it comes, it comes off as the, the, from the trust factor again, you know? It does. 32:48 And I th- I, and I, I think it's, you know, I think an- another thing businesses should take away from that too is cr- is making these things, you know, as, as a guy who does messaging, um, 32:59 trying to make these benefits a little more tangible for people, you know? I mean, 'cause you, you worry about the water and, and, 33:06 and you worry about those things and, and you don't necessarily believe the benefits as much. So, so how can we make some of those benefits a little bit more tangible? And I think that's where that listening comes in. 33:15 I mean, certainly with the pipeline there's a lot of benefits involved in that. You know, w- uh, for, uh, the ethanol industry and the farmers and the premium for grain. 33:24 And, you know, uh, carbon sequestration is, is a thing, you know, with some opportunities. And, and, uh, we didn't, and I, you know, maybe we didn't communicate those, those benefits well enough. But, 33:35 but I, you know, that's another thing that we talk about is, is, is instead of saying, "Well, your county's gonna get X amount of taxes that they can do stuff with," can we pin that to a project that your community cares about so that people can kinda wrap their minds around? 33:48 Instead of saying the county gets $5 million a year, the, you know, it's like $5 million a year earmarked for- A monorail... this. Yeah, a monorail. [laughs] Or the school, or a bike trail. Right. 34:01 But, you know, I mean, what are those- Right... can we pin these to some concrete things so that people understand concretely what they're getting- Right... in there? So I, I don't know. That's, that's a piece of it. 34:13 Um, but yeah, you know, it all boils down to trust and it, and I think trust is, is something that happens over time, so you gotta go in early. Um, and you gotta go in authentically caring, you know? 34:25 It's, it's not just a box to check. You gotta, uh, you gotta have the right people who are good at listening to go in there and- You don't look like you're selling a monorail. [laughs] I'm not, man. I'm anti-monorail. 34:38 [laughs] I got the signs ready. Oh, man. [laughs] Well, good luck on all of that. The, uh, I mean, you got a, you got a big hill to climb. Like I said, I think- Yeah... the, the pipeline sort of issue s- 34:54 kinda poisoned the well a little bit on lots of stuff. You mentioned solar farms too, and that's another issue. Yep. I mean, so yeah. I mean, there's a, it's, it's a big issue out there, uh, amongst some. 35:04 Uh, you know, I, I, uh, um, compare, you know, Joel, Commissioner Joel Lorenz said, uh, you know, in Lincoln County, said, "We don't want this stuff. The rest, the rest of America wants it, fine. 35:17 But we wanna preserve our sort of, you know, the, the character of our Lincoln, of Lincoln County." And so there are a lot of people who feel that way, you know, in, in parts of South Dakota, so. Yep, yep. So. There are. 35:27 Um, and I too wanna preserve what we have in South Dakota. I, I do think that economic development goes a little, little bit into preserving what we have, so I, I do think there's a, a middle ground there. 35:39 Well, thanks for coming in. Good luck. And, uh, nice to reminisce about the old days at the Argus Leader. Yeah. 35:45 We'll have to do over, uh, Buell Distributed Products, and, uh, you know, I don't know if you've got a Juno Sleep System, but, uh- [laughs]... they're damn fine mattresses. Thanks to the sponsors. 35:55 Uh, they help make everything possible here. Thanks for coming in. Yeah. Thanks a lot. 35:59 [upbeat music] If you wanna understand what's really happening in South Dakota, start with the Dakota Scout, South Dakota's leading journal of politics and culture. Locally owned and printed in Sioux Falls. 36:12 Founded in 2022 by veteran reporters Jonathan Ellis and Joe Sneve, the Scout brings more than 40 years of combined experience and a reputation for relentless, fair-minded reporting. 36:24 From Sioux Falls City Hall to the State Capitol in Pierre, the Dakota Scout delivers breaking news, investigative reporting, and serious political coverage without the spin. 36:35 Its Lewis and Clark-inspired logo reflects its mission, charting new territory in a new era of South Dakota journalism. 36:43 Subscribe today for full access to stories delivered straight to your inbox, plus The Scouting Lounge podcast. $7 a month at thedakotascout.com. The Dakota Scout, stay informed. [upbeat music]
