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Head for- If you wanna understand what's really happening in South Dakota, start with The Dakota Scout, South Dakota's leading journal of politics and culture. 0:33 Locally owned and printed in Sioux Falls. 0:36 Founded in 2022 by veteran reporters Jonathan Ellis and Joe Sneve, the Scout brings more than 40 years of combined experience and a reputation for relentless, fair-minded reporting. 0:48 From Sioux Falls City Hall to the state capital in Pierre, The Dakota Scout delivers breaking news, investigative reporting, and serious political coverage without the spin. 0:59 Its Lewis and Clark inspired logo reflects its mission, charting new territory in a new era of South Dakota journalism. 1:07 Subscribe today for full access to stories delivered straight to your inbox, plus The Scouting Lounge podcast. $7 a month at thedakotascout.com. The Dakota Scout, stay informed. All right, big problem. 1:25 I sleep hot. Like, hot-hot. I sweat like a pig in my bed. Do pigs sweat a lot? What? 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Juna. 2:35 [upbeat music] Welcome to The Scouting Lounge, podcast of The Dakota Scout newspaper based in Sioux Falls, South Dakota. Hiring for sound engineers. My name is Jonathan Ellis, one of the founders of The Dakota Scout. 2:53 That was a BL distributed product. That was a BL distributed product, and that is Joe Sneve, the other founder of The Dakota Scout. Stressed out over here. Stressed out. 3:01 And so stressed out that he couldn't even remember some of our guests that will be on later, the names. Yeah, I had, like, no sleep, and our guests here now have already heard this. 3:10 Um, but we had USD Vermillion people playing, and I'd had, like, no sleep the night before, and I totally forgot John Cole's name. The mayor? I mispronounced the USD president's name, and I should know that. 3:22 I'm a USD guy. President Gesterman. I've known her for 30 years. Anyway, they'll be- Or 40... they'll be on later. That's not true, but a long time. They'll be on later, but- Juna Sleep System mattress, you know. Yep. 3:33 You need one of those. Did you get any of those? Did our s- very, very special guest. You guys caught up on sleep. 3:38 We've got Ian Fury, campaign manager, campaign e- spokes for, uh, Governor Rhoden, who made a runoff and will face Toby Doden. Aberdeen businessman, as everybody... That's, like, the title that goes in front of him. 3:52 Matt Hurley, the man of mystery. [laughs] Uh, the man behind the scenes of, of this historic campaign. Uh, you, you guys were the top vote getter. Congratulations to both of you. You caught up on sleep? Oh, yeah. 4:06 Well, I got a... I, I do have to make a joke. Uh, I was listening to last week's podcast and somebody said something about me not getting any sleep. I've actually been sleeping really well the last few weeks. 4:16 What did I say? Not you. Who said... What, Toby? [laughs] Oh, 'cause Toby was our guest last week, right? And- He was... so- It's probably what propelled him to victory, the l- being the last one on. 4:31 [laughs] Probably, actually. [laughs] So- We think highly of ourselves here at The Dakota Lounge... yeah, just I was looking at traffic last night. I don't know if it was that episode or if it was just... 4:43 I think it was Saturday, though. We had more podcast downloads than ever before. I guess I don't know if it bo- if it was more than we had when Schoenbeck shit talked your old boss so bad, Ian, but, um- 4:57 That was a good one... yeah, it was. [laughs] So he... I see... And you were, last time you were on the pod, you were t- you were in the back- Twirling the mustache... 5:05 twirling the mustache, sitting behind Sandy and the governor, um, looking all, I don't know, what would you say? Like Mr. Burns. [laughs] Like, you're rubbing your hands together. 5:16 I'd go more, I'd go more Ned Flanders, but- Ned Fland... Well, you have the mustache. Yep. Pretty much Ned Flanders. I'm kinda, like, the persona, like, the puppet master in the back. 5:25 That's what it looks like, but welcome in, guys. Again, um, you, you guys are like the same person. Are you gonna... Have you ever rocked a mustache like Ian? No. Mm-mm. And I can't grow a beard. What's that? 5:39 So you're, like, inverse. You should shave the mustache- And just-... Matt... have like a, do like a chin strap. Do the Abe, Abe Lincoln. Oh. You know what I'm saying? The Abe Lincoln thing, yeah. Do the Abe. 5:48 So if you guys are trying to make some inroads into the rural areas, talk about the hood orights. [laughs] Yeah. Anyway, um, so we were s- we were talking, um- What were we talking about on that shit cut off? 6:04 Do you remember? Oh, you, oh, you were talking about how well we did in Highmore and Miller, and that part of the s- Oh, yeah. You were, you were saying- [coughs]... so 6:12 you guys did really, Ian, you guys did really good in rural areas. I'd say, I was looking at some of the returns, though. I mean, Toby did really well, too. I mean, you know, I would say both the... 6:24 Those were the, the two, I mean, rural areas just going through the county by county results. I mean, both those candidates generally did pretty well in those, those rural areas, so. 6:33 Well, the point I was making before we realized that the Dakota Scouts technology is- [laughs]... seriously flawed- We print a newspaper, bro. 6:42 [laughs] Is that if you start really Huron and look west, uh, there, there starts this kinda swath of Rhoden territory, and the difference there is on a campaign that had really as little financial resources as we did, we relied very heavily on volunteer door-knocking. 6:59 And we had volunteers knock every door in Huron, every door in Highmore, Miller, Gettysburg, Pierre and Fort Pierre, more so up in the northern hills. 7:10 Those are all areas that we won, and that really shows that, that grassroots can get the job done. When I say every door, I mean everyone who was likely to vote in a Republican primary. Yeah. 7:19 Um, and so little bit of proof of concept there for a, for a hard charge in runoff, but- How would this be different? Matt, you've worked campaigns in other states. So have you, Ian, but not- Yeah... to the same... 7:33 Like, you, you're, like, you were the guy on the Rhoden campaign, right? Is that your first time being campaign manager? Oh, for a race of this magnitude. Yeah. So- I've done on, like, a city council race in- Right... 7:43 Topeka, Kansas. Have... Aside from Rhoden, you've... Have you run a- Yeah, I've, uh- You're not a campaign manager. 7:49 You give a shit because you're not technically campaign manager, but- You can call me whatever you want, but I, you know, I mean, like, my role is general consultant for the campaign. But yeah, we, you know, the... 8:00 What was the premise of the question? Well, like, as- You guys-... you've worked for other... Have you worked- Yeah... governor's races before? Yeah, for sure. Yeah. You had another race in this, this cycle, didn't you? 8:08 Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're working, we're working in Arizona- Yeah... um, on some, some statewide stuff, doing, uh, Florida. Um- Who do you use as a pollster? Uh, Victory Insights is our pollster. Okay. 8:17 Yeah, I co-found- Are they out of Texas? Austin, Texas, yeah. Okay. Yeah, I co-founded that, uh, company back during the 2019, 2020 cycle. So- Well, uh, how did this race compare? 8:30 And I suppose, I guess, where I was getting at with that is it's a different sort of primary, right? When you don't have the prospects of a general election where you have to feel threatened by progressives, right? 8:44 Like, like, in a lot of times you got these primaries in states where everybody's trying to out-conservative one another, and then it's really hard to swing back before the general and c- gather those moderate voters. 8:55 That's not really a concern you guys have to have here, right? Yeah, I mean, s- certainly the... I mean, the... Whoever wins the Republican, you know, nomination here is gonna be the governor in, in, in January of '27. 9:09 Um- Do you agree with that, Ian? It's not a concern I ever had because Governor Rhoden's capable of reaching out to all branches of the Republican Party. I think it's, I, I mean- He used to be a Democrat, though. 9:20 You, yeah. An- an- and he, and he'll tell you the story. His parents were children of the Depression, felt very beholden to Roosevelt. By the time Reagan came along, he's voted Republican ever since. 9:30 So- I, I love these stories, like [laughs] they're, they're so well put together. Well, uh, nobody would call Larry Rhoden a Democrat, progressive Democrat. No, he's- [laughs]... he's, he's, he's, he's, he's not that. 9:39 But here, but here's the thing. Uh, look- You heard it here, folks. Matt Hurley- [laughs]... backing the underdog in this campaign. [laughs] He's not... Listen, he, the, I mean, we had... 9:47 If you wanna actually get into the brass tacks of this race, I mean, the... It's, look, we're sleeping very comfortably. We would've liked to have closed it out on, on Tuesday night. 9:55 It's tough to do with a, in a, in a four-way race. Uh, we gotta get over 35, but I mean, it was a resounding [laughs] win for, for Toby. 10:03 I love the story of the door-knocking in the, in the 20 smallest counties, uh, in the state. He- Toby Dodan beat Larry Rhoden in 36 of the counties. Those 36 counties make up 75% of the vote in the state. 10:16 Toby Dodan beat Dusty Johnson in Minnehaha County. He beat Larry Rhoden in Pennington County. He owned his own, his home turf in, uh, in Brown County. He, he won the entire, you know, populous city. 10:28 He won down to Union, Dakota Dunes, one of the more moderate, you know, places in the state. 10:33 Uh, the candidate that dominates the full spectrum of the Republican Party is gonna be able to unite the full spectrum of the Republican Party, uh, post-election, I- is going to have the support of the full spectrum of the Republican Party, is Toby Dodan. 10:45 Uh, certainly commend the governor for, uh, over-performing in those, you know, much, much, much smaller counties. 10:53 Uh, you know, to their credit, they definitely did a good job of staying in the hunt, knocking on the doors, doing the things they need to do to stay in the hunt. It's not gonna translate, uh, to this, this runoff. 11:02 Uh, this runoff is, is, is gonna be won by, you know, the candidate that can capture the full depth and breadth, not just the smallest counties, uh, in the, in the state. 11:11 And so, you know, we're excited to, to get through July 28th, uh, to get to work on an amazing transition with, with, uh, with, with Governor Rhoden, and turn the, turn the administration over in January. 11:23 It's gonna be awesome. We're gonna get to work on it, and got a lot to learn from, from all the, the candidates and, uh, look forward to, to, uh, bringing Ian on whatever capacity is necessary. 11:31 This one's a lot more pleasant before the technology broke. [laughs] What, what's turnout gonna look... I mean, if A- Yeah... give you a chance to respond- Yeah. And then we'll let... But yeah. 11:41 Oh, I'd, I'd love to talk about turnout, but, uh, the, the fact of the matter is, um, this was a four-candidate race. And, you know, one thing I mentioned was 11:53 the fact that if you look at how much each candidate invested per what vote they received, Governor Rhoden spent something like half of what the Dodan campaign spent, and a third of what the Johnson campaign spent, and, and here we are. 12:05 You know, I'm a lifelong fan of the Green Bay Packers. Last time the Packers won the Super Bowl-... uh, 2010 season, 2011 Super Bowl, they came into the playoffs as the sixth seed. You know? 12:18 When you, when they only had six teams. [laughs] In the- They, they- Right? They, they did only have six teams They now have, like, seven or eight They were, they were 10 and six. 12:26 They had to win out to get into the playoffs, and, uh, you know, you win your first round game, you move on to the second round game. 12:34 Doesn't matter- It wasn't the road to- It doesn't matter what seed you come into the playoffs with, it matters who wins the Super Bowl. So- Yeah. 12:40 Well- We feel pretty good, especially with the, with the campaign we've been able to run dollar for dollar. Uh, we, we feel very good about our prospects to carry this forward. 12:49 Um- Can you, can you sign players in the playoffs? And I guess the analogy there is, like, yeah, I'm sure you guys will get a big windfall of cash, like campaign donations from this, right? 13:01 Like- I hope- Checks start coming in, do you think you'll be able to match dollar for dollar a little better between... I mean, obviously Toby Dodan's wealthy, self-financing his campaign and he can, he probably has a... 13:13 I don't know how deep the bucket is. But, uh, will, will... There, there's probably a financial boon from winning this race for you guys- It's a little early- Or are you being silent on that? 13:23 It's a little early to say what exactly the impact of that is, but you know, we've proven we can run one hell of a campaign on a, on a tight budget. 13:31 You know, the West River rancher who didn't grow up with a whole lot, and the, and, and the school teacher wife are used to running a tight campaign. 13:40 They point out to me that when they ran for US Senate, and he came in second in that race, their budget for their campaign was 150 grand. So, and, and granted, that was a totally different race than this one. 13:49 I actually think- But- I actually think you're not gonna see the money be as much of a factor in the runoff, because first of all, y- you... It's very different, right? 13:57 What we started with from all the candidates was, uh, you know, a years-long, a year-long, you know, awareness campaign, um, where you had- You were trying to build name recognition Well, you had, I mean, you had, you had, you had two candidates in, in Hansen and Dodan who had virtually zero name ID. 14:11 Frankly, the governor did not have much name ID. That's true. But, but con- uh, they're all at essentially zero when you compare them to Dusty Johnson, right? Right. 14:19 So the, you really saw most of that money, most of the work that was done by all the campaigns was an awareness campaign, you know, that built over the course of, you know- Like the freedom, or, uh, the open for opportunity. 14:31 You mean when Governor Rhoden changed policy to benefit the people of South Dakota and communities across the state? 14:36 Well, I mean, I think part of what we could get to with- You've, you've, you've tried to spin that narrative for a year and it's f- You know, it's true, though. [laughs] The... 14:44 You know, just like in the debate, when Ellen said- If, if BS comes from the Dakota Scout, can I call it DSBS? DS- TDS... or TDS. I'll say- [laughs] I'll say you have TD then. 14:54 I have to say, I have to say- [laughs] If you, you... Joe always likes to get in- inside, uh, inside baseball behind the scenes. You know, he was working real hard election night to get behind the curtain. 15:03 I walked through the curtain. Yeah, you actually just invited yourself behind the curtain. [laughs] But here's my thing. I, I, I- I've never experienced that. Nope... 15:10 no, an in- an inside scoop to our, our room- [laughs]... uh, during the first debate when, when Rhoden, you know, first tried to, to land the, the DC BS line, I looked right at our team and I was like, "Man." 15:24 I was like, "Ian Fury's spent a long time making that up" and I was like- [laughs] And he and Larry- And-... just could not land it. [laughs] And I gave- And I did not give him that line. Nope. No, sir. Wow. 15:34 I gave, I gave him a different version of that line. True. But he made it, he gave it a West River rancher spin, and I was just as surprised as everyone was. I have never met a more loyal soldier [laughs] than Ian Fury. 15:43 But look, the, the point I was making was I think that you s- so much of that money was, was chasing Dusty, you know, having to catch up the name ID, all that stuff that, that went on. 15:53 The, the runoff now is gonna be about vision and voter turnout. That's what it's gonna be about. Everyone knows who Larry Rhoden is. Everyone knows who Toby Dodan is. 16:02 Now it's about the voters are gonna go out in this, in this runoff are the people that are identifying, you know, what their vision or lack thereof is, and whether or not they're gonna go vote for it. 16:12 And Jonathan was asking about turnout. Yeah, I mean, I, it's just, this is an unprecedented, obviously historic- Right... race for South Dakota. I mean, I think people in, it... 16:20 and certainly in, like, Sioux Falls are, are used to, like, we have a mayoral runoff, right? I mean, they're, they're used, used to that concept, but statewide that's not, that never happened before. Mm. And so you're... 16:31 both campaigns are gonna have to educate voters. It's like, "Hey, you're gonna have to get out again". Yeah. And at... That's, that's a tall order, I think. And historically across the nation- And, and July... 16:39 historically across the nation, a runoff like this gets, like, 40 to 50% of what the primary turnout was- Mm-hmm... 16:46 for that very reason, and because there's not other races going on that motivate people to get out to the polls. It's really just the one race. But- So I think, I think that's what matters is you gotta look at... 16:56 That, that's really what's gonna be analyzed here over the next couple weeks is who's going to go to the polls for this election- Mm... and w- what, what's gonna drive them there, and it's gonna take vision. 17:05 It's gonna take the... People wanna vote for something. Right. 17:08 You know, I would analyze that most of the people that voted for the governor, uh, in this primary election were people that were really put off by the attack ads, people that were turned off by the election. 17:19 They weren't going there to vote for the governor's policy. Oh, yeah. They were going there to vote for two sessions of results. They were going there to vote for the largest property tax cut in South Dakota history. 17:30 They were going there to vote for the fact- Yeah... that we were the first state- The large part that... to deregulate suppressors. 17:35 They were go- going there to vote for the fact that we're banning abortion pills from coming into the state. 17:40 They were absolutely going there to vote for the guy who signed 1052 with a 25-year history of defending property rights in this state. 17:47 They were absolutely going to vote for the West River rancher who leads with civility, who, who- Well-... does not divide people, but is able to bring folks together from all spectrums. 17:58 There's two very different personalities in this race. Well- And, and the way I would put it is if you like civility-driven conservative results, if that's the approach that you like, then Larry Rhoden's your candidate. 18:11 If you like a guy who speaks a little more brashly and doesn't always operate in the realms of what's true, then Toby Dodan's your candidate Well, I was gonna say I thought it was an interesting dynamic that you do have... 18:24 I mean, Toby Doeden is sort of more Trump-ish in that he'll say what comes to his mind I think it's pronounced honest. [laughs] The word you're looking for is honest. Well- No, it, I mean, it's, it... 18:36 That's the difference is it's honesty, and he's, he's campaigning for something. He's fighting for something. 18:41 The people of South Dakota want to believe that the best days are ahead, which is gonna require a candidate that has a plan for the future and has a vision for the future. You guys want whiskey? [laughs] I'm good. 18:52 I'm good with my beer distributor products. Well, well- You're welcome... so Toby, you know, he, he is a bit, okay, honest, as you... I'll, I'll put quotation marks around it, but I'll use your term, right? 19:04 Uh, Governor Noem's been big on civility, and resetting, and, like, trying to, like- And integrity... and get... [laughs] And- [laughs] 19:13 And I- so I thought that was an interesting sort of dynamic heading into the runoff a, a good contrast. Uh, but I don't... 19:21 I was watching, uh, one of the 10:00 broadcasts last night, it was either KELO or Dakota News Now, and they said both candidates are committing to having a positive campaign going forward. Um, is that... 19:36 I mean, that sounds like that... Is that part of trying to, like, undercut the advantage of civility, the Noem being the civility candidate or- No, I, no, I think that it... 19:45 You, what you- Right, you just have to say that. No, I think what you're gonna see is that the... First of all, the, the guy... The, the, the candidates 19:52 that promote something are the candidates that get rewarded with votes. Doeden has a bold plan, a bold vision. That's why he won on Tuesday night, because the candidate- the voters came out- Mm-hmm... and voted for that. 20:04 So, you know, you're not gonna hear out of the Doeden campaign this, you know, fear-mongering that you're, you're gonna hear from, you know, some of the people that are supporting the governor. 20:14 You're gonna hear Doeden talking about his plan for affordability, his plan for public safety, his plan to keep, you know, South Dakota the freest state in the nation. That he's, he's... People... 20:23 And that's what it's gonna take to get people to come out and vote in an, a completely unprecedented, unscheduled election is they're gonna go vote for something. 20:30 They're not gonna vote for this, you know, fear-mongering nonsense that is that, you know, the world's gonna fall apart if the big angry man, you know, becomes governor, 'cause he's not angry. He's very positive. 20:40 He's got a plan for the future. He's outlined it. People love it. His popularity is two and a half times that of the governor amongst, uh, amongst Republicans that are gonna vote in this election. 20:50 I mean, you know, while I deeply respect the public service that, you know, Larry Rhoden has given to the state over the last 30 years, he doesn't have a path to victory. 20:58 He doesn't have a path to uniting the legislators or the Republican, uh, voter base for that matter. Toby has that. Toby will be successful on, 21:06 on, uh, July 28th, and then we'll begin the hard work of, you know, transitioning the government over, g- picking up more seats in November. 21:13 There's more pickup opportunities in the legislature, uh, headed into November and, you know, we look forward to working with, uh, with the governor on, on transitioning things over in advance of January. 21:22 Speaking of fear-mongering- [laughs]... one of my very favorite moments of this campaign... Lincoln, Lincoln Day dinners are a snapshot in time of a campaign, just really, really kind of, 21:33 kind of a quaint deal where you're going to some of the smallest towns in the state and you're meeting the people where they're at, and you're pitching them your vision. Um, 21:40 and I had the chance to speak for, for Governor Noem at a few Lincoln Day dinners. One of them was in Redfield. 21:47 Um, and for some reason they decided to give the governor candidates eight minutes to talk, which is just too long. Agree. It's usually four or five minutes, sometimes it's two. This time it was eight. 21:57 And so, you know, I, I, in about five minutes was able to get through everything I needed to say about how Governor Noem has the results and the vision to keep South Dakota strong, safe, and free. 22:07 And I had this extra three minutes. Well, a couple candidates before me- Did you talk about the Packers? 22:12 I, I wish I would've ta- [laughs] I wish I would've talked about the Packers, but instead, couple minutes before me, one of the other guys had gone down this long list of fear-mongering, 22:24 claiming that South Dakota's education is the worst that it's ever been, that healthcare's in South Dakota's the worst it's ever been, that our economy's flatlined, that our revenue growth is flatlined. 22:34 It was about seven or eight things that just weren't true. And so I had about three minutes at the end there, and I took him point by point. Our economy's flatlined. 22:43 Well, actually, we've got the second fastest GDP, GDP growth in the nation. That's a result. The budget's flatlined, the revenue. 22:50 Well, actually, at the time, year over year- The budget certainly isn't flatlined [laughs]... 22:54 year over year our revenue was up 9%, and since then it's actually gone up to year over year our sales tax revenue is up 12.5%, which is an incredible sign of a robust economy in South Dakota. 23:04 Claim that rural healthcare is the worst it's ever been. 23:06 Well, actually, we've got visionary, to borrow your word, investments in the rural health transformation thanks to President Trump and Governor Noem working with the Trump administration to deliver that. 23:17 Claiming that education's the worst it's ever been. While there have been times when it's been better, we have bold initiatives to improve scores in reading and math, 23:27 uh, and, and to continue to advance opportunities for parents to make the best choices for their kids, like signing on to President Trump's education, uh, school choice opportunity. Um, another claim that he made 23:40 in that was that, um... Oh, goodness, I ran out. You have 10 seconds. I know this gets longer than the eight minutes he got at the Lincoln Dinner. 23:48 [laughs] The one thing I have to say is I have- Well, let him finish, uh- Well, but, but- Quick... 23:52 but what I brought it back to at the end of it was that integrity matters, and being able to operate in the realm of truth matters. 23:59 And candidates are allowed to have different visions and different policies, different opinions about different issues. They're not allowed to operate in different sets of facts. And so when certain claims are made 24:13 by the Doeden camp, unfortunately, you've always gotta pause and ask yourself, "Is what was just said true?" 24:20 And you have never once had to ask that from any word coming out of Governor Rhoden's mouth because his integrity is his stock and trade. What about arrest numbers for Prairie Thunder? No. 24:31 [laughs] And when that happened, Joe, when that happened, and, and, and I will- You guys, I'll give you credit for that... 24:36 I will, I will be honest about this fact, Joe was the one who pointed out that our arrest numbers were maybe misleading. [laughs] And I was, I- I'll give you credit... you can, you can, you can, you can acknowledge this. 24:49 Yeah, I can. I told you that I was shocked and that I would fix it. Yeah, you guys did. I'll give you credit for that. And it, it had been that way for- A long time... ever, right? A long time. 24:57 I mean, that, that, the Sturgis numbers were always inflated. Yeah. And I don't wanna, I didn't mean to go... I was just kinda giving you a, being a little cheeky with you. 25:05 But I will give you- You were, you were being Joe... you guys were credit, I'll give you credit for that, 'cause we were fighting about something else at the time. 25:11 And, you know, I said, "These numbers aren't what you say they are," and you go, you're like, "Why, 'cause the, 'cause arrests?" And you were, you were pushing back on me because arrests doesn't mean you go to jail. 25:25 And I said, "I know that." [laughs] And then, and then- [laughs] First love's crazy. [laughs] No, no, no, no, no. But, but then I said, and, 'cause we were, it was pretty heated. 25:37 And then I said, "Yeah, but- I've never had a heated conversation with Joe. No, never. 25:41 Uh, then I said, "But," and pointed at like, said what was happening, and it was dead silent on the phone for about three, four seconds. Then you go, "I gotta make a phone call." 25:51 [laughs] And then, uh, within a day, you guys were doing it different. So you were a f- a flaw in government, statistical reporting and gathering, uh- It was fixed by some wood gum shoe reporting... 26:05 was fixed, was fixed, um, after brought to your attention. I don't think, um, Governor Rhoden or even Governor Noem had anything to do with that. I think- He was as surprised as I was... 26:16 I think, I think some highway patrol director f- 25 years ago wanted to pad the numbers so they could get a bigger budget. Gene Abdallah. You know? So anyway, uh- Blame, blame Gene. 26:25 [laughs] I don't mean to get off on this tangent. Why, why don't we, uh, uh, pay some bills? Let's talk to USD folks. John Cole, mayor- Just take it off. Like this? That's sexy. I know, right? 26:38 We can just take it off and pop it in the wash. 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Juna. 27:33 [ice crunching] To some, that may just sound like ice hitting heavy-duty plastic, but to a Bud Light Legend, it's a signal that says it's time. 27:43 Time to dust off the barbecue tongs and load up the cooler with 37 Bud Lights and an assortment of dips. Because it's time to take back all the fun we've missed. Welcome back, Bud Light Legends. 27:54 Let's take summer by the coolers. Cooler up at budlightlegends.com. Enjoy responsibly. 2021 AB Bud Light Beer, St. Louis, Missouri. Distributed by Beal Distributing, Sioux Falls, South Dakota. 28:05 And this is a Beal distributed product. [can opening] Oh, yeah. I usually twist around the trigger. And that's Joe Sneve, the co-host, co-founder of the Dakota Scout, 28:14 uh, podcast that's sponsored by Beal Distributing and Juna Sleep Systems. I'm a USD graduate, too. Well, that's- Just a sidebar... 28:21 the, I'm, no, you have the honor of introducing our guest because you are a, a Yote, right? Did I say it right? Yeah. Go Yotes. [laughs] Go Yotes. Yeah. 28:30 The, uh, uh, Sheila Jestering, president, um, you fill big shoes with President Abbott. I think you've done a great job. Thank you. So- I wear a size nine and a half, so that helps. [laughs] [laughs] So, uh, 28:46 uh, we got the mayor of Vermillion who's gonna be the ambassador today. Um, and you're gonna have to remind me your name, man. [laughs] John Cole. Mayor John Cole. John Cole. Yeah. 28:58 You have only one extra name to remember. That's Sheila's. Other than that, it's John. I mean, you- I, I, I thought, I'm like, first name's Cole. I'm like, dang it, right. 29:05 [laughs] I'm on the mic and I froze up, so- [laughs]... uh. I s- I got to see Mayor- I'm sorry, bro. [laughs] I got to see Mayor Cole at the dedication of your law enforcement center- Yeah... Earl last fall. 29:18 That was a pretty cool event. That's a pretty nice facility. Yeah, you guys know each other. You guys- Well, I mean, I've just covered, you know- Yeah... some stories for us. Covered some stuff, yeah. Yeah, yeah. 29:27 You set me up to fail there. Oh, sorry. [laughs] Anyway. Yeah, it, it's a great facility and, uh, we, uh, we're blessed to have it and, and the partnership between the county and the city is fantastic on its- Yeah. 29:42 Yeah, I was impressed with that. So I mean, there's some counties and cities that, that don't get along. No. Police o- police forces. [laughs] Like Abraham County. [laughs] Anyway, what brings you to Sioux Falls? 29:52 Ev- it's great to have you. Well- Us... yeah. I guess. You. Oh, wow. [laughs] It was the invitation. Well, 'cause we can brag about USD, so. Yeah. Uh, did you see the football helmet up there? We got- Love it... 30:04 a little USD helmet up there. But, uh, there's a lot of good things going on in Vermillion. Uh, the campus looks totally different than when I was there. Really? I think I left in 2011, so it's almost unrecognizable. 30:19 What do you think the big, like- What's going on with the law school? I feel like things are popping there. There's a lot popping. Can you talk about that? Yeah, there's a lot popping with the law school. 30:27 Thanks for the article on that, the coverage. It's 125th, yeah. 125th anniversary coming up here. Um, we'll finish up one more renovation project of the HVAC system, and that'll be essentially a brand new building. 30:40 Um- It- We've renovated everything in that facility top to bottom. That's, uh... Will it have enough bathrooms? Yes. [laughs] It will have enough bathrooms. [laughs] Well, they built the old one with not... 30:53 With, like, one- Two or three stalls... yeah, with women's bathrooms. Well, and that, yeah, that's the thing. What's the c- what's the composition of law school? I'd imagine it's majority women, right? It's about 50/50. 31:02 Is it? Okay. Yeah. Yeah, a lot more women are obviously g- my, my wife's a lawyer- Yeah, yep... and a lot more women are going into law, so that's a good thing. Yeah. So. It's great. Need the bathrooms, for sure. 31:12 Yeah, and the- My lawyers have all been women. Yeah. They've all been, uh... How many- [laughs] How many do you need? [laughs] Yeah. Yeah, how many lawyers do you need? [laughs] Guns and lawyers, right? Very good. So... 31:25 Well, when that is, like, how's... What's the timeline on that? How long till it's like- So we'll start that this summer. And then how long till it's open? Oh, it's open. We'll keep it open. Okay. Yeah. 31:37 You don't have to... Well, I mean, the... Is it a brand new building though, uh, the section, like a addition or whatever? There were no additions, nope. We were able to work it- Oh... 31:47 so that the constructions projects were complete over the summer and didn't interfere with the education and- It's like a- Invite you up for a tour anytime. It- It looks fabulous. Is it g- it's- Well, we should do that. 31:59 Yeah. I'm gonna... We'll take you up on that. Yes. Yeah. All the buildings kinda all have like their, the angle, like, design. Is that still happening? 32:09 There's a lot- That start, that started, I think, when I was down there. That could be- Like, the Muck. Yeah, there's, there's not a lot of 90 degree angles in- Yeah... several of the buildings. 32:18 I think we wrote- Yeah, the architecture is very interesting on campus. I like it. I think we wrote a story once at the Milan about it, so. Yeah. The, uh... My biggest story there at the Milan was when 32:31 he was a math profe- not a professor, but a student professor, or whatever you would call him, and he had shot two dogs in the trailer park. [laughs] And, and- I did not know that... 32:42 it was a wild, wild thing, and it, like, blew up and, um, the guy kept teaching though, then he transferred out somewhere. [laughs] So anyway, um- That was before my time. Well. 32:55 I, I think I, I think I heard this story once before back in, uh, my earlier years. In your years? And s- so before I became mayor, I was a police officer in the city. You were a law enforcement, yeah. So, yeah. 33:05 So- So I said, "Pretty sure I've heard this story." [laughs] Yeah, so you maybe read the story too. You read the police report probably- [laughs]... which we don't get to read. 33:14 But, uh, yeah, I guess I didn't realize that you used to be a police officer- Yeah... or had forgotten that, just, um- Well, hey, I, I get it. You forgot my name, so it's- See, well, I know, right. 33:24 [laughs] So let's just get to know each other. [laughs] How about that? So, uh, what's that make it cool then to open, open that law enforcement? It was. It was, it, a little bit of bittersweetness actually- Right... 33:35 'cause, 'cause it was cool to see it happen and, uh, but bitter because I'm not in it working, right? Yeah. So, uh, but no, it was good, and I also added some knowledge of what is needed, right? Right. 33:48 That, that was a big part of it, and honestly, it was years and years in the making for- Yeah... the sheriff and the police chief and the prior police chiefs before that. 33:57 I mean, they've, they've been working a long time to get that thing through. But it's more than a safety center as well. That Jack Powell addition- Yeah... has a lot planned. 34:07 Yeah, so that, that whole s- that whole system that we have there, you know, when that, when that originally was planned, you know, the, the county and the city were looking at putting that on a different piece of land, and when that... 34:20 That would've cost us a lot more. And the city, we came upon this land, this Jack Powell addition is what we call it, uh, it got into our possession. We actually ended up buying it at an auction. 34:32 It was old farmland, and it's about 50 acres. 34:35 And now, uh, so we're able to be much more cost effective with the tax dollars and, and cheaper, but now we've, we were able to secure housing funding from grants from the state, and we're gonna be having housing lots. 34:49 We've already s- got about 16 lots spoken for out of about 30, 36 single family homes. A pretty good size park that's gonna go in there, so just massive expansion to city limits. 35:03 It's gonna bring, uh, a broader tax base 'cause unfortunately, um- What part of town is that in? That would be in the northwest portion of town, right along the bypass on Highway 19. Okay. So Highway 15-19. 35:16 Um, my goal, uh, has always been part of trying to grow our community, grow our tax base. Yeah. 'Cause the unfortunate part about having a university in Vermillion is there's a good chunk of town that- Tax-exem- Not... 35:28 It's tax-exempt, right. Exactly, so we need, we need to grow. Uh, property tax has always been a big issue in our- Yeah... in our area, and so by growing that base, that helps. So. Yeah. 35:39 I- I was impressed with that project for what you, for what you talked about because it incorporated some of the housing part of that. Mm-hmm. And then you had a joke I think about, "Oh, you could open a donut shop." 35:48 Right across the street, yeah. There is, yeah. There's a couple commercial lots there. 35:50 Right, there's some commercial- And it's still for sale, so if you wanna go into the bakery section of business, you guys can- [laughs] We, the Da- the Dakota Scout can expand into, into donuts. [laughs] Yeah. 36:01 Well, uh, I like going to Vermillion. Mr. Smith's always really- Oh, yeah... yeah, I always hit. It's, it's tough 'cause you can only eat one meal as you're passing through Vermillion. Right. Right? 36:11 But you wanna go everywhere. Mexico Viejo. Mm-hmm. That's still a hit with the kids. Well, it's actually- It's-... under remodel right now. Really? 36:18 I mean, it's been closed down for a little while, and they're remodeling, and I think they're gonna open it back up from what my understanding is, but- So they're getting in on the action too? 36:26 Not yet, but I mean- [laughs]... they're, yeah, they're, they'll be back open. We've, in the meantime, they've got a couple more Mexican restaurants that did open up since. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So. Well- Yeah... uh, how many- 36:38 I, I mean, what else do you guys wanna talk about with the, the school? Like, how'd you guys do with enrollment, I guess? [sighs] How is that comparing to, uh, um, the other schools, I guess? Are you seeing growth there? 36:50 So our enrollment the last two years are the two biggest classes in history. Wow. Um, last year actually was a little smaller because there were some visa delays, so that was challenging and- Why was that? 37:03 [laughs] Come on. [laughs] Um, but this year looks to be holding steady as well in, in this demographic decline. The demo- demographic cliff is what they call it. Right. Yeah. 37:15 Um, holding, holding even is gonna be a win for a while. Yeah. Um, Sioux Falls has been really, really good to us. Mm-hmm. This area, Sioux Falls and the metro area. Yeah. Um, we've done well in Sioux Falls, definitely. 37:28 And, um, really grateful to the area. The- And... Go ahead. Well, the, um, with the to- we wrote about regents raising- Yes... tuition too. Think they deserve credit for holding the line on that for- Absolutely... 37:42 how many years in a row was it? Like, four? There were- Or five maybe... so the first year when COVID w- first was emerging, um, the presidents and the regents all came together and agreed we should not raise tuition. 37:56 There's just too much unknown. Yeah. And then after that, the legislature effectively funded, um, tuition freezes for us for four years in a row. Okay. So a, an effective five-year tuition freeze. Yeah. 38:11 And then the, the universities did our part by freezing fees and finding ways to reduce costs elsewhere. So we didn't raise tuition or fees in that five-year window- Yeah... which has been huge. 38:26 And hard to believe, but the average debt at graduation now for students is down 30%, at least at- Wow... USD. 38:34 So that makes a tremendous difference, and I think that's what's helping all of us s- sort of hold steady on enrollment. Yeah. All of the schools in the- Mm. Yeah... yeah, yeah. Right. Yeah. 38:44 I think some of the, I think the private schools, uh, USF and Augustana are doing very well too, so, you know. Yeah. 38:49 But I, but you talk about that dem- There will be, there will be co- well, probably a lot of smaller co- schools that end up closing in the next five to 10 years, I would imagine- Yeah... 38:58 that aren't gonna be able to weather that. Right. Nationally, there's been quite a few. Yeah. Yeah. Well, the state just bought a school from- Oh, the-... Colorado or something like that... right, the gunsmithing school? 39:09 How does that work? Yeah. Do you guys wanna... Can you, uh, tell us, like, the nitty-gritty of how all that works? The s- the, the state puts out a press... And we can delete this if you don't really want to do it. 39:23 [laughs] [laughs] 'Cause I really know nothing about it. Yeah. [laughs] I didn't, I didn't look into it. 39:27 The state puts out a press release that says, like, you know, Rhoden, he's running for governor, you know, whatever. You guys don't have to comment on that part. [laughs] But it says they're, they're, like, 39:38 they buy a, a accredited school that's operating in Colorado. So they, like, buy the eq- like, a gunsmithing school, and they're gonna buy the equipment and the professors. Or I don't know. 39:51 Like, didn't really have time to ask a ton of questions around it. It was a busy day. But, um- Well, if I were a gunsmith in school- How does that work?... I'd wanna get out of Colorado too, just quite honestly. 40:00 [laughs] Fair. I don't really get that, so. I, I, I, I'm from Colorado, so I'd wanna- I think we need to do, we need to do a follow-up on that, actually- [laughs]... you know, on the storyboard. Um, well, I don't know. 40:12 I- Last time I was in Verm, it was for, uh, that WNIT game. You get good seats. I do get very good seats. Yeah, you know, like- Yeah... yes... center court. And I'm very into those games. 40:22 Yeah, you seem like a pretty big fan there. Yeah. Yeah, and if they, if they lose, you actually can't talk to President Gestring for at least two days- Yeah... 'cause she's still angry about it. Gestring, huh? 40:31 Solid- Yeah... a solid 48 hours. I'm not, I'm not good at losing. [laughs] I hate losing- Yeah... a lot more than- Yeah... I like winning. Yeah. I say that all the time. 40:40 [laughs] Uh, you, you've been around long enough now to, like, see the effects of the college transfer portal, all of that stuff. I mean, and, and USD and SDSU are often kind of victims of that, right? 40:52 You know, the, the, of your success. Yeah. And that's, uh... Is that... I mean, I know that there's been talk in Washington, you know, a- a- about having to reform the way college athletics... I mean, 41:04 where, where are we going with that, do you think? So I think there's, there's conversation. I think there'll be a little bit more movement. Um, 41:12 you know, I, I think the first thing is the student athlete has long been sort of entitled to some of the benefits of using name, image, and likeness, no question. Mm-hmm. Um, 41:25 and I, I'm happy for them that they're getting some of those benefits and additional help and support. Um, a, no question some of the power fours let that get a little out of control. Yeah. 41:35 Um, and I think that's why you're seeing Congress step in. Where it's going, it's hard to say. I suspect we're getting closer to a one transfer or a five years of eligibility only. Sure. Um, 41:54 you know, there's, there's the cap on how much can be spent on revenue share and L- NIL. Yeah. Um, they now have an outside entity evaluating NIL, um, to make sure that it's real- Mm-hmm... 42:11 name, image, and likeness, and not just someone cutting a check. So we're getting closer to sort of reasonable regulation. Yeah. Where, where schools like SDSU and USD, when we have success, get rated- Yeah... 42:28 is where it does get a little bit diff- difficult because we invest in these- Right. Yeah... students and, and, and their success. And, but at the same time- You can't tell them not to go. Sure. It's life-changing money. 42:43 Yeah. And so, uh, quite a few stay still, um, because they do have an opportunity to get noticed and get that name out there. And, and they get a little closer attention, and, and we develop them really, really well. 42:59 Mm-hmm. And, and we are seeing our, our student athletes going into the NFL, for example- Yeah... and get professional opportunities in basketball. And so they understand that too, and so they are still staying with us. 43:12 But when they get seven figure deals, you gotta take a chance. It's, well, it's hard to blame, blame them for that. Yes. Yeah. 43:19 I, I, I will say that I get, I get what you're saying for the athlete, and I get that they should, you know, they should benefit, you know? But I als- it's also kinda ruined college sports in some sense for me, you know? 43:29 Well, I don't like whenever we get a good basketball coach, then they leave. [laughs] Like, serious, every time. So- Well, to be fair- Maybe they should have, it's like a transfer portal for the grown-ups, you know? 43:42 [laughs] Well, in some ways. I mean, the coaching, I, I'm, it... And I'm qualifying this with Power Four schools. When they leave, and they convince these kids to come, and then the coaches leave- Yeah... 43:55 we're expecting more from the student athlete. Yeah. Well- Well, like the SDSU coach went. He bounced, right, after one year, and then went to the other, another school, and then he bounced from that one. Oh. 44:07 Um, that's pretty tough on the kids, I'd imagine, and the players. Well, I know Deion Sanders just brings his whole team with him, but- [laughs] Anyway. [laughs] I was a Buffs, Buffs fan, right? 44:17 Well- But, but, uh, anyway, yeah, it's, it's... 44:19 So do you think, or I mean, are you optim- I mean, Congress isn't known for getting a lot done really, but I mean, is this an ar- ar- area that there might be some bipartisanship? There is. 44:28 I think, I'm optimistic that there is, yes. Yeah. Yeah. And that athletic direct- or conference, um, CEOs have been working together, and Josh Fenton here in town- Mm-hmm... has been a part of that group. 44:42 And I think they've done a really nice job of working with Congress and, and coming up with some reasonable solutions that can, can handle this at a national level. Sure. 44:53 Part of the problem was that individual states were trying to address it, and then you're running into different rules in different states, and our conference is cross state lines. 45:02 And that just becomes really difficult to manage. Like regulating AI or something like that or, you know? Good luck. Good luck. [laughs] Yeah. So. 45:11 Well, Congress, yeah, they'll probably take a great interest in regulating sports. Like, there's a lot of big issues. Let's, let's have big panels on athletics, you know? 45:20 Well, there, it is one of the like- I mean, there's a lot of money there. Yeah. And like, you know, you're taking advantage in some ways of, um... 45:27 I mean, the NCAA taking advantage of, of, uh, student athletes in some ways probably deserves some conversation. But I mean, I just think it's kind of ironic that Congress would 45:38 sort of, they can't do anything, so they're gonna take a stab at that. So. [laughs] Well. Anyway. It's a big issue. Yeah. And there are some former coaches who are in Congress too, right? 45:48 So, uh, they're, they, they have taken an interest. We're running for Congress, so. Yeah. But, well, so you, another big announcement that USD had, or it was with regard to the medical school. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. 45:58 And, uh, moving some of that here. Yes. Um- That like made a lot of people mad. Well, I mean, I would imagine- T- Toby Donovan was pissed about it. 46:07 [laughs] There are people, people in Vermillion are obviously very protective of- Mm-hmm... the institutions that are part of USD. Um, is that one of those you kinda like gotta swallow or, hmm, you know, say, "Okay." 46:20 I mean, it, it, it makes sense practically to have those students here w- where the- Mm-hmm... where the systems are. Right, yeah. 46:28 But maybe you should say, uh, maybe the mayor would like, "Well, why don't the systems open up here, hospitals down here?" So, you know, but, you know, so. Well, that'd be great if they would, right? Right. 46:36 Um, but I mean, the reality is, is, is we are a community of 12,000 people. I mean, we can't sustain a medical facility like that. And at, at the end of the day, this is what I respect about the university. I mean, 46:52 one day I'm gonna need to rely on those doctors that get their schooling at- Right... the University of South Dakota, and I want them to be the top best doctors that, that we can offer. 47:02 And if Vermillion can't house that facility to provide that education because the facility of, of medical research or, or, you know, the, the, the hospitals and the, the, the job shadowing, things like that, and the clinicals, 47:16 it makes sense. It really does. Um, is it a great thing for Vermillion? You know, President Gestring has a transition period. 47:25 It's gonna take a few years and, and we know that, that as they exit, uh, other programs are gonna be able to grow. So the question is, is how are we gonna feel that in the community, right? Mm-hmm. 47:38 Um, the students, I believe it was, like, what, 50 some students are in this whole program- Mm-hmm... and about half were actually living in Vermillion for that time. Right, right. 47:47 So it wasn't, there were a lot of them are already making that commute anyways. Mm-hmm. Um, and we're gonna see that, that program grow, or the other programs grow. So we'll have those students stay in Vermillion. 48:00 The faculty, of course, as, as those programs grow, the faculty will replace that as well. I think the hardest part about the community is, is the change, right? Nobody likes change, especially in South Dakota. Mm-hmm. 48:11 I don't like change, but we just, it's part of, it's part of growing. And I think the, uh, 48:18 uh, the, the faculty that are currently working with the med school, and President Gestring has been really good about, um, working with them on, on either if they wanna stay in Vermillion and, you know, interject me at any time. 48:31 I know we've talked about this, but if they wanna work in a different area, they can. Or if there's something else that they, they wanna do that, or retire if they're eligible for retirement, things like that. 48:40 And again, this is a transition. It's gonna take a few years, so we can-... kind of wade into that, not just dive in. So overall, I think it'll be a good thing for 48:52 o- the overall good of the university and the community because, like I said, I get it. Mm-hmm. Uh, you look at these much larger universities, like look at, look at... 49:02 I look at Indiana, 'cause I lived in Boston, Indiana for a little bit. Um, you know, you have Purdue and Indiana both have satellite campuses in- Yeah... 49:12 you know, Indianapolis that do the exact same thing what we're seeing here with USD in Sioux Falls. Um, it's just part of growing, and we're gonna see that. The other aspect though is, is 49:25 Vermillion campus is growing too, and Vermillion is always gonna be home, right? That is where USD sits. That is, that's the mothership. Sioux Falls is Vermillion's satellite office, is the way I look at it. 49:38 [laughs] So sorry, Sioux Falls. Yeah. [laughs] But- That's a pretty good play. Yeah. [laughs] Yeah. So what's gonna be get done with that building then? Just classroom space, or what is it? 49:48 So yeah, that's, that's the beauty of it. It opens up the opportunity to expand some STEM programming on campus. 49:56 Um, we have several programs in the health sciences that even with that building that we built in 2022 have reached capacity. 50:04 Um, our dental hygiene program, for example, um, we're, we're turning away very qualified students, and we don't wanna do that. Mm. So we'll be able to expand there. 50:15 Um, I can't believe it only took four years to get to capacity. I thought it would take longer. Um, so lots of opportunities with the health programs and the STEM programs to expand. 50:26 So I, I don't think the Vermillion community... I think actually Vermillion community's gonna benefit because the students will be there more than 18 months. Yeah. They'll be there four years. 50:38 Yeah, and remind me, so the, the first, the first-year students will continue to be medical students, will continue to be there, and then it's when they need to start to, the, the, the clinicals, that's when they- 50:48 S- so that's the way it is now. Okay. Eight- the first 18 months are in Vermillion. Okay. And then the balance of their time is predominantly Sioux Falls. We have some in Yankton, some in Rapid City- That's right... 51:01 and some in our farm locations or more rural communities around the state. That will all remain the same. Okay. But the 18 months now is shifting up to Sioux Falls. Okay. 51:12 And that's because modern medical education has you in that clinical setting day one now. Yeah. And so our students were commuting one way or another a couple times a week. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, thanks for filling in. 51:24 I, I, I covered the event, man, but the, the- Yeah... but, you know- Yeah... um, I mean, it was a, it was a big deal the, the, the, um, announcement about it. Yes. 51:33 Um, and, and obviously it involved, uh, you had both Sanford and Avera involved, and then, you know- Mm... 51:37 and when you get them involved in something, I mean, kind of in the medical area, kind of know it's for the betterment of healthcare in the state and the region. Absolutely. So yeah. 51:47 And there's no way we could do this without our health system partners. Yeah, no. They have just been fabulous. 51:53 Yeah, you know, and, and one of the things that, that, that led down to is, you know, the rumor mill, okay, now the med school's moving. What's next? Oh, University- Right. Yeah... 52:01 of South Dakota's gonna move to Sioux Falls. [laughs] That's next. Well, and we're- And we're-... gonna send you to prison. Yeah. [laughs] Smithfield's moving out. You guys can move USD in. And, and [laughs] No. 52:10 That's obviously- Lightball. Yeah. Not, not happening. [laughs] Like, I mean, the university is- That's why you guys came up here, big reveal. Right. Yeah, hey. [laughs] Uh, you know, the university is expanding. 52:23 Be breaking ground here soon on the new gas and, uh, tracks facility and- Yep. That's right. Yep. Yep... how, how big, how many millions of dollars project is that? So that's a $40 million project. Yeah. Yep. 52:34 So I mean, that and then we, we just renovated the dome on the west side and looking- Yeah... soon to have renovations on the east side. East side. Mm-hmm. Now the- How often do they wash that thing? Is that a thing? 52:45 The dome? Yeah, like you gotta repaint it. They just repainted it. They did? Yeah. All right. [laughs] All right, good. Well, it's, it's a membrane. Yes. Not paint. It's not paint. It's a roofing- Thank you... 52:53 membrane to prevent leaks. Sorry, I had- But we went-... a weird question... we went from white- [laughs]... to a light gray because I noticed the dirt- Yeah... accumulation as well, and it drove me crazy. 53:02 It looked like snow. It did. Like after it winter. [laughs] You know, like... Yeah. But... Oh, it looks great now. I mean- Yeah... yeah, they just put a membrane on it. I think they put a red membrane on it. 53:13 It, that turns pink real fast. Oh, really? Okay. Oh, it doesn't weather the sun? No. [laughs] Yeah. Yeah, I suppose. Huh. You wouldn't wanna make it black 'cause it gets hot. See, that's why she's present. 53:21 She thought about that and we didn't. [laughs] Yeah. See? [laughs] Well, you, you were mentioning- And then next thing you know, people will be calling it the Pink Pony Club. Yeah. 53:28 That's what I would see people saying it, right? Oh. [laughs] All of a sudden you have a pink dome. [laughs] I've heard, I've heard that song. I've heard my kids singing that song in the backseat. 53:37 [laughs] The, uh, uh, you were talking about the, uh, dental hygienists though. Yes. Right? Yep. Um, 53:44 the regents have sort of been kinda like subtly moving to like reduce budgets long-term, find efficiencies, things like that. Um, but they always talk about, I think va- like finding value- Mm... 53:59 I guess in, in what you're, what the state is investing education-wise. Is that like a, an example of that, I guess? 54:09 'Cause that's popped into my head when you were, you were saying that, um, that that's probably what Tim Ray was talking about. Is that a good example? What do you mean? Of value. Like you're getting value out of- Oh... 54:22 out of that building. That's- Absolutely... you know, by relocating- Yep... the med school- Yep... you're getting value in both places. Absolutely. You know? Yep. So... 54:29 Utilizing the assets that we have to the fullest extent. Yep. Yeah. That's exactly that. And they're not just like Mr. Burns and- [laughs] No... 54:39 just kinda like subtly trying to get rid of tenure for professors, things like that. No. Can you explain what that change was? Yeah, so- What they're about... 54:48 that's, that's pretty common anymore is, um, post tenure review Yeah, that's what it was, right? 54:54 Yep, yep, and that means five years after tenure or in five-year increments after tenure, um, there will be a review similar to when you go up for tenure. You put together, 55:11 um, sort of a portfolio of your research, your teaching, and your evaluations, and your service, and a committee on campus will, will review that dossier, and that will go through a commit- uh- Do you have to have research... 55:29 If you're a professor, do you have to have research do- Maybe, I don't know, if you're a professor do you have to research, period? Or are there professors that don't do any of that, they're just teaching? 55:40 We do have teaching only, yes. Okay. Um, about 30% of our faculty are, um, not on a tenure track. Okay. And so then they only teach. They're instructors, lecturers, senior lecturers. 55:57 So if you're not tenure, you, then you go research? Correct. Is that how that works? Mm-hmm. Okay. I don't know, I was always too afraid to ask Jim Abbott these questions. [laughs] The, uh... 56:05 I don't know why, he's a super nice guy. Yeah, he is. Uh, actually I'll tell you. You wanna hear a Jim Abbott story? I would love to hear one. [laughs] Yeah, we do. [laughs] The, uh... 56:14 Well, it was, it was 2008 or '9, they were cutting budgets- Yeah... pretty heavily, right? Yeah. After the recession. 56:24 And you know, we were, me and this other young reporter, you know, we're, we thought we were gonna go in there with, talk to Jim Abbott with some loaded questions about budget cuts and how it's, like, the sky was falling on campus, right? 56:37 We had no perspective about anything. Uh, and I remember I was asking him, like, "Well, shouldn't you have, like, seen... Like, you cut $30 million from the budget." 56:46 Like, nobody's noticed, govern- And he, he's like, "No, just the economy," whatever. I'm like, "But nobody, like, noticed anything coming?" Like, probably 'cause I was naive, right? I have no perspective. 56:57 Like, I think I'd probably see $30 million coming. I don't know. Uh- I believe it was three. Three w- yeah, yeah. [laughs] In my head it seemed like 30, right? [laughs] 'Cause I didn't have, like, 30 bucks. 57:07 Plus or minus a zero on the end of that. [laughs] Yeah. I didn't have 30 bucks. It's like, uh, you know, those huge numbers don't mean anything. 57:14 [laughs] But he, he got a little perturbed with me, and it got, like, kind of tense. And, uh, he ended up calling me, like, later that night and apologizing. [laughs] Really? Yeah. 57:25 And, uh, I mean, that was, that was cool. That's nice. So, I mean, we always remembered each other after that. Yeah. Right? [laughs] So, um, I don't know. 57:34 I, I got in, got into it a little bit with a couple other ones too, but I'll leave those stories. [laughs] But, uh, drank a lot of Biel Distributing products down there, and I was of age too. Okay. Right? So. Good. 57:49 [laughs] Right. [laughs] I don't think I wa- I don't think I was sleeping on a Juno mattress though. I think I was sleeping on, like, a box spring laying on the floor of a, of a blue carpet on Elm. 58:00 Let me grab my car keys and we'll roll. Are we still going to that new bar downtown? Yeah, it's supposed to be fun. Lexi, give me driving directions from home to downtown bar district. Autocorrect. Suggest Uber. 58:12 Pick-up home, drop-off downtown bar district. No, I'm driving. Suggest the Metro Bus departing in 12 minutes. Huh. Point taken, Lexi. We'll grab a ride. If you drink, don't drive. 58:23 Decide to ride, brought to you in partnership by Anheuser-Busch, Mothers Against Drunk Driving, and Uber. This message brought to you by Biel Distributing of Sioux Falls. 58:31 [gentle music] My grandpa was one of my favorite all-time people growing up. I remember going to the Tulip Festival with him. I remember his blue jacket was always full of Starburst. 58:42 I remember a lot about my grandfather, but I also remember a lot about what he instilled in me and some of the values he dropped along the way, things like, "I could never afford to buy cheap." 58:53 Now, what that means to me is that in the industry that I'm in, mattresses don't last through their warranty, and those big box brands really don't have your best interests in mind. 59:02 They'd rather have you buy a bed and it break down prematurely, and you'd have to buy a new bed again. 59:07 But at Juno Sleep Systems, we value our commitment to our customers and their satisfaction long-term, which is why we only use the best quality ingredients, and we're there for you any time you wanna make a change to the mattress, even per side. 59:19 At Juno, 1950s values are still alive. We're only as good as the quality products we turn out at the end of the day, and our word is our bond. Come on down and check us out today, 41st and Grange in Sioux Falls. 59:31 Thanks again to Juno Sleep Systems and Biel Distributing. This is- Support them... gonna air a week ahead. Who's the governor gonna be? Do we know? Are we heading into a runoff or not? Of course. Well, th- Absolutely. 59:44 You're gonna have, you're gonna have two run- According to Toby... you're gonna have two runoffs I think. You're gonna have a- Yes... you're gonna have a governor and a Sioux Falls mayor runoff. 59:51 Have you endorsed in the Sioux Falls mayor's race? [laughs] I have not endor- [laughs] No, I have, uh, I have not endorsed the Sioux Falls mayor race. Okay. The Sioux Falls mayor endorsed me though, so that was awesome. 1:00:01 That's nice. Yeah. That is good. Yeah. Actually, Mayor TenHaken and I go back. He, he actually married my wife and I. Oh. Okay. He officiated their wedding, yep. Oh, interesting. Wow. 1:00:10 I, I, unbeknownst to people, mayors, uh, by state law, have the ability to officiate weddings and marry people. I did not... So when he was mayor he did, he officiated? TenHaken. TenHaken did. Yeah. Yeah. 1:00:20 So when he was mayor, yeah. Yeah. Or whatever. Yeah. Interesting. Ac- actually, that was one of his social me- media hashtags was Mayors Marrying Mayors. Oh. [laughs] Say that 10 times fast. 1:00:30 [laughs] That sounds like something Paul would do. [laughs] So is he, is he, is he do, is he doing this, like, is this like a little cottage industry that he has? It is big. A little side hustle? Little side hustle gig. 1:00:39 [laughs] 100 bucks. [laughs] Make the drive. Is he doing this as, like, a regular thing for him or is this, or is it a one-off you guys? 1:00:44 No, it was a, I think he's only said at that, our time, we're the third one he ever done. Okay. Um, and it was, uh... We asked him, my wife and I asked him, so my wife's sister ran the 437 Project thing. Okay, sure. 1:00:58 So, and then she, she was here in Sioux Falls when we had met, and she was an avid runner as well, so knew, knew Paul from- Sure, yeah... the running clubs. Yeah. And so just kind of- You're, you're one of the runners. 1:01:10 I'm not a runner. Oh, I was, but this la- this session killed me... this last little sleep session and Run, running'll kill you too. 1:01:17 Yeah, run- You've probably, you've probably met my wife in one of the many, many runs up here. She's always constantly up here running. But I suppose there's worse habits to have, right? Yeah. 1:01:25 Well, I run to, because I drink too much of this. Drink too much of that. [laughs] So, I gotta like, it gets you out of the game. There's a dude who wrote books on running, and he died of a heart attack. Wow. 1:01:34 Like, you know, back in the '70s, but he's probably an anomaly, I would guess. [laughs] Yeah. [laughs] Anyway, uh. So you, we were talking during the break a little bit about population. Yeah. 1:01:46 And I said that, you know, I, I, I w- I collect cen- census stat stuff, and I get, get all the releases, and I w- I write a lot of census stories. But their, the city census data came out here, uh, 1:01:58 and my sense is that Vermillion over the, uh, over the last five years, they've been releasing it since COVID- Yes... to help mu- where people are migrating and things. 1:02:06 And obviously Harrisburg, T, these communities- Right... are seeing like, you know, double-digit growth. Um- Yeah... and but I, my sense is that Vermillion's p- stayed pretty steady. 1:02:15 I haven't looked at the 2025 data, but where, where are you at there? Yeah, we have a slight growth increase in Vermillion. Um, I'm trying to remember the exact number. It was right around like a 1%. 1:02:28 I mean, so it's- Get more liquor licenses out of the deal? Not yet, no. Okay. Um, but, uh, uh, it's weird- You guys have a monopoly on liquor licenses in Vermillion. That's right. We have a municipal liquor store. 1:02:40 Oh, is it municipal? That's right. Okay. It is a municipal liquor store. All right. Yep, yep. Bastards. [laughs] You guys don't want to indulge, don't you? Yeah, the grocery store sells booze. Okay. 1:02:51 Yeah, you can, you can buy beer and wine at the grocery stores, but- But not the-... if you want the hard stuff, you gotta go to the city liquor store. You gotta, you gotta come to the city. Yeah. Yeah. 1:02:58 [laughs] Come to the city. And why is that? Like- So every- Can Dallas get-... every city in South Dakota has that option, and they can decide whether or not they wanna keep it municipal or divvy it out, right? 1:03:10 So like- Brookings does the exact same thing... yeah. What's up with college towns doing that? [laughs] Supply and demand, I guess. I mean- Yeah, monopoly for sure. [laughs] Right? 1:03:20 Hey, hey, if it's good for the goose- It, it, hey, it-... it's good for the goose, it's good for the gander... helps pay off for all that infrastructure. [laughs] I mean- Yeah... 1:03:27 honestly, though, it's, it's not as, it makes money, but not as much as one would think. Yeah. I mean, there is some overhead costs, obviously, to all that. It's a big store. Yeah. Well- It's gotta be... 1:03:40 it's not as big as it probably should be. Yeah. Let's be real. But I- No, they're smuggling it in 'cause you guys are oppressive. Well, yeah, you- [laughs] Oppressive... you gotta think about it too. 1:03:50 Back in college, were you, were you buying the high-end alcohol stuff that probably sells for a lot? I still keep going. He's still- Yeah. He's still more calculated now. Over here. Yeah, over here. [laughs] Yeah. Yeah. 1:03:59 Yeah. [laughs] We got, we got a bottle of it somewhere. Yeah, exactly. [laughs] So, I mean, it wasn't, it's, they're probably not spending a whole lot of money. 1:04:08 I mean, back in college, let's be real, you probably paid a lot of money for a cheap bottle just because you had- Yeah... the guy that bought it for you, you had to pay him, right? 1:04:14 You go like, uh- With the good butter friend... the pub, the pub always had specials. Tuesdays, te- dollar tequila shots. You go down there with like a $5 bill, not remember going home. 1:04:24 [laughs] Yeah, I don't think they- $5 and you're buying... I don't think they have that deal anymore. That's for sure. Yeah. Or Char Bar. Inflation. $10 all you can drink, now it's probably 20. No. Right? What is it? 1:04:33 It's 13 now. Is it? 13. Not last I knew. That's so bad. You go down, the mayor goes- Last I know. I was just gonna say, I- I, hey, no. [laughs] Back in, like I said, back in my prior law enforcement profession- Hey... 1:04:43 we knew about that, right? [laughs] We knew about it. [laughs] People do that. Just wondering what the mayor's doing. Yeah. [laughs] Definitely staying away from that place at night, that's for sure. 1:04:53 [laughs] How many, how many fake IDs do the, the- A lot, actually. It's- [laughs] It's, well, here's the deal. You know, it's, it's a, it's a growing concern. They've just become so readily available. AI and stuff. 1:05:05 Yeah, I mean, it, but- Or it makes it worse. I don't know... the biggest, the biggest thing is, is it does, it makes it worse. 1:05:11 Getting caught in possession of fake ID is actually a, a higher level of crime, it's a Class 1 misdemeanor, as your minor consumption is. Minor consumption's a Class 2. 1:05:22 You, and think about it, as a future employer, would you rather deal with somebody you hired that got a minor consumption or a crime of fraud, right? Yeah. 1:05:33 I mean, 'cause that's what possession of fraudulent ID is what it says. Right. Possession of fraudulent ID. How, how many- Until you explain it, and you're like, "Okay." 1:05:41 But still, I mean- Yeah, usually just taking them and throwing them away, though, right? 1:05:44 Honestly, the w- the police department, you know, I've been out of that game for five years now, so I don't know what all they do with that. 1:05:51 Uh, I think it, a lot of it has to do with the totality of the circumstances- Right... what's going on. Uh, I'm sure there are a few- And if they're shitheads or not... 1:05:58 I'm sure there are a few that probably talked their way into some bigger tickets. Right. [laughs] Um- They probably even vibed a little bit. Yeah, yeah. I mean- [laughs]... 1:06:07 that was, when I was an officer, that was a big part of it, right? If, if you kinda earned your way into some other tickets, right? Right. Yep. Uh, a lot of that. You gotta stop running your mouth. 1:06:18 [laughs] That's the question. Did you ever have that problem back in school? No, actually, I was very polite in those encounters. 1:06:23 [laughs] I don't know what your observation is, but I've, I've been at USD now for 20 years, and I don't think students get in near as much trouble- No, no... as they used to. No. 1:06:37 And they don't party in the same- Yeah, they don't... reputation like you used to hear. Yeah. That's what's wrong with that world. [laughs] Even, well, honestly, no- They don't party like they used to... 1:06:45 Sheila's right, they don't. And, you know, a lot of people think that 'cause it's a college town there's, you know, crime rampant with college students. That's not true at all. No. Um, 1:06:56 I call it your, kind of your, maybe more of your nuisance crimes. Yeah. You know, the underage drinking, the loud noises, things like that might be more of your college students. 1:07:04 But the, the stuff that people are really concerned about, you know, stolen vehicles and thefts and, and assaults and things like that, that, that isn't coming from- That isn't, yeah... 1:07:14 the, the majority of that is not coming from your student base, no. Um, and, and you know, and- 1:07:20 We have a, we have a good, you know, we've talked about the law enforcement center, but, you know, what, what's more important is what fills that law enforcement center, and we have a good group of law enforcement officers that are community-based that, that work with the, the community pretty well. 1:07:33 So I mean, for a community our size, I mean, it's, it's still one of those places that people go and, and feel safe in. Yeah. So that's good. Well, and, uh, the partnership with the university- Yeah... 1:07:45 police department- Yeah... is, we really certainly appreciate that- Yeah... with our community. Hey, you guys are winning on that front compared to Brookings, too. [laughs] [laughs] Yeah. Very. Joe found one. 1:08:00 [laughs] [laughs] Yeah. 1:08:03 [laughs] But to your observation about students not partying as much, I, I've got two kids who are of college/high s- you know, that, of that, and they don't, I mean, they don't c- I mean, compared to like me growing up- Mm-hmm... 1:08:16 I mean, I lived a John Hughes movie, you know? I mean- Yep... it was like partying every weekend. In fact, in fact- What else are you gonna do? 1:08:22 You know, I mean, and this was, I, I, I think I, I'm part of the greatest generation. I had the best, the best growing, you know, Gen X are, you know, we didn't have cell phones. 1:08:31 You could, you could disappear for a weekend and your parents wouldn't know where you are. They can't track you, you know? 1:08:35 And, uh, I mean, my, uh, the, my, we started my junior year in high school, we started a thing called KTS, Keep The Streak, and it was to have a keg of beer every weekend. 1:08:46 [laughs] And that, that went K- we all had g- on our graduation caps, KTS on it. 1:08:50 And that thing, I left for the military shortly after graduating, but they, my friends kept that going until they all went to college that next summer. So I mean, we went a whole year of a s- a, a keg every weekend, so. 1:09:00 Well, were you ever put on double secret probation? You know, like Animal House? I was, and that's another story for another time. [laughs] Okay. [laughs] Yeah. 1:09:07 Now, now Keep The Streak refers to the Snapchat streak for kids. Well- Oh. Yeah... it's, it's a totally different world... just texting each other, make sure to do it every day, right? Yeah. Yeah. [laughs] Yeah. 1:09:17 [laughs] It's a whole different meaning now. Yeah. It is. That's why they're not partying. They gotta keep those Snapchat streaks going. But it- It's sad. Yeah... it's a different world for sure- Mm... 1:09:25 for growing up now, so. Well, um, so why did you stop being a police officer? [lip smack] Uh, it, well, I did it for 17 years. 1:09:35 Uh, and after time, I, the older I get, the older my kids got, missed spending time with them and realized that, uh, 1:09:44 one thing in Vermillion is, is I got older every year and the students I was chasing around sometimes didn't. Kind of like Matthew McConaughey. Yeah, right. Exactly. [laughs] All right, all right, all right. 1:09:54 [laughs] More like Danny DeVito. [laughs] I get older and the chicks stay the same age. Yeah, but it's a little different when you're- Well-... in law enforcement, right? 1:10:04 Yeah, I know, but- And the problem is, is, is- Can't lie... uh, I just got... [laughs] It just, it, it took a toll. Yeah. Sure. And, and seeing all that stuff and doing all that stuff, it just, it just takes a toll. 1:10:15 And finally I had a, a great opportunity owning my own business, and so I jumped into that. And shortly after jumping into that, then I got asked to run for being, uh, running for mayor. 1:10:27 And I still, I've always had a passion to serve. Um, before, you know, I grew up actually, um, doing Police Explorers when I was a, in a teenager in high school years. 1:10:39 So I did that, then was a reserve officer, joined the military, then went into f- full-time law enforcement. So I've always served the public in some way, shape, or form. 1:10:47 So when I left the police department, there was still that come, uh, that, that hole, that void. Desire. Yeah. 1:10:52 And there's still the desire, and people saw that in me and, and so I just continued doing that and ran for office, and apparently the people agreed and, and elected me. So I've been doing that for the last four years. 1:11:04 And, uh, you know, I think, I think Vermillion has had a lot of momentum in the last four years, been doing great with their, like we talked about, the growth. Mm-hmm. 1:11:12 Um, just got Community of the Year for the state of South Dakota by, by GOED, um, so shows our e- economic impact. Our housing is, is growing. 1:11:21 We've had more people, I think, in the last two years, and when I say people, I should say developers, wanting to bring business into the community or housing into our community, um, than, I mean, you've been here a long time- Mm-hmm... 1:11:36 for l- years we've ever had. And even people that are in Vermillion also expanding their opportunities as well. 1:11:43 I mean, there have, there have been landowners in town that have kinda been sitting on open land for years and years, and now they're starting to look at, "What does it look like I develop this and bring this in?" 1:11:56 So- Like infilling? Yep. Mm-hmm. Exactly. So all that's exciting to see in the community. 1:12:02 And, and the collaboration in town has been like no other, whether it's the university and the city, the city and the county, the school districts, um, it's just, it's great to have everybody at the table and problem solve and think how we can grow. 1:12:19 Is that, like, uh, one of the infill things, there a Chinese restaurant that burned down and then became, like, a, a car lot? Yep. Yeah, yeah. That was infilled, right? 1:12:29 So right there on the corner of Plum and Cherry, right? Right kitty-corner from the, uh, North Complex. It's now a Starbucks. So they infilled that already. Yep. Cool. So the, that's already filled up. Yeah. 1:12:38 That's a Starbucks now. Uh, and, uh, um, there's a couple other things that are going in. Remember Stewart Oil? What's that now? On Cherry Street. Yeah. Right across from, uh, the, what was it? The law school. 1:12:53 Uh, the student union. Oh, yeah. Student union. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that- Next to the church building... yep, that just got torn down and they're gonna rebuild some stuff there as well. 1:13:02 So I mean, it's, we got a lotta, lotta stuff going on right now. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Well, um, some of that, um... I forget where I'm going with this. You know, I'm fucking tired. 1:13:15 [laughs] No, but, but Vermillion's pretty well, it, is, is pretty nicely situated where you're geographically, where you are. I mean, it's- Oh, yeah... 1:13:23 you know, you know, you, that three state region area near there and, and, uh, it's a nice town. I mean, I- Uh, you could do, you could do a lot worse than, uh, you know, I mean, living in Vermillion. 1:13:35 I, I kinda, I'm partial to the, the college towns a little bit. I l- I love Madison. Yeah. You know, I think that's a great town. Yeah. So... 1:13:42 Hey, I knew I loved Vermillion when I, my first D-Days, I emerged on a Sunday morning. [laughs] And- Out of Char Bar? I didn't know where the hell I was. 1:13:51 [laughs] And honestly, I woke up in a trailer house that I didn't know, like, the, I- [laughs]... I didn't live in Vermillion. I didn't go to school there yet. 1:13:58 And, uh, I wasn't of age at this time, but it's been seven years, so I can tell the story. [laughs] Okay. Uh, and then I wandered around. 1:14:07 Uh, but the streets were like, the streets I were walking down were, like, literally flooded with beer cans. And I'm like, "This is awesome." [laughs] So [laughs] with like a blanket or something. 1:14:20 A blanket with- To, to all the, to all the parents that may be listening to this, while sending their kids here- That is not the case anymore... th- yeah, yeah. Not anymore. That is not the case. Not anymore. Yes. 1:14:29 Meanwhile, Mom and Dad are just talking to the kid about going to USD, like, "Hmm, maybe." Yeah. Nope, not- No, that is not-... not happening... the vibe at USD anymore. 1:14:36 Like I said, I don't think it's the vibe anywhere really anymore. I don't know. No. It's just, it's a generational shift. I agree. You know? So... Yeah. 1:14:41 Well, I think to your point about the college towns, there's always something going on. Yeah. Whether it's a play or a concert- Yeah... or a sporting event or a lecture- Yeah... 1:14:52 or it's some expert coming to town- Mm-hmm... to speak. It's, it's just there's always something great going on. Well, speaking of sporting events, um, USD made the transition to D1 after SDSU. Mm-hmm. 1:15:07 And I think we s- saw, like, the results of that, right, by- Yeah... we had a lot- For sure... Coyotes had a lag in sort of the growth of the program behind... It seems like it's evened out now. Yes. 1:15:19 So between the Jacks and the Yotes. Is, is that, like, sustained now? Is it, are we just like- That's the goal... it's whoever, like, sort of doesn't screw it up now? Yeah. Right? [laughs] Yeah. Yeah. 1:15:32 Well, and what I love about that is that being in their conference with them now, they push us to do better and, and we push them and, and that's, that's a great thing. Yeah. 1:15:45 Competition makes everybody better, and that's just a great thing. Those games are so fun to watch, too- Yeah... when they're competitive. Absolutely. When it's not competitive- That's for sure... 1:15:54 it's not fun for anyone. Yeah. So but it was pretty sad when they didn't play at all. It was. How many, how many years was that that they didn't play? Like- Oh, I don't remember... 1:16:04 six or, six or eight or something like that? It was a long time. It might've been longer than that. But- I think it was longer than that... I think it's probably better for the s- I don't know, the state community. Yeah. 1:16:13 Right? And when I say state, I mean, like, the whole state of South Dakota, not- Right. Yeah. 1:16:18 Well, it brings a, a whole new energy, too, s- with them being competitive against each other, you know, whether it be, you know, football or, or basketball or whatever, the, the energy in town is amazing. It's- Yeah. 1:16:31 You guys... Um, I talked to Ben Jones, like, hard turn here in the conversation, state historian. Yeah. He was... 1:16:38 I was asking him of, like, what's going on in the state, what are you, like, in the education world and academics, um, around America 250, what's happening- Mm-hmm... with that. And he said... 1:16:51 Well, actually, like, the reason why I was interested in this is 'cause it's the last two weeks of school, of public school here in Sioux Falls. 1:16:58 Um, and my daughter's, 13, smart kid, like, super smart, said, "What's America 250?" And, like, they're a week from leaving school, right? And I'm like, "What the hell? [laughs] What do you mean?" 1:17:10 Like, and then at first, I was like, "Oh, the public school not doing its job," right? And I'm like, "Well, wait a minute, I'm not doing my job either." [laughs] Right? Like, you don't know this shit. 1:17:19 So, um, but it got me thinking, like, what are the s- in the education world, what's happening with that? Um, Ben said, though, that you guys got stuff cooking for that. We do. 1:17:31 And you might have, uh, some immersion with the freshmen or something, the upcoming class. Yeah. You wanna talk about that? Yeah. So actually, our, we have a- Maybe I'll have a beer. Like I need one, but- [laughs] 1:17:43 You make me wait till I sit down. You see that? [laughs] I did see that. I'd take another one too, please. Yeah. Sorry. [laughs] Another beautiful distributor brought it around. Right, right, right. Yeah. 1:17:54 But- Well- Anyway, sorry to interrupt... so we actually have a, a committee in town- Yeah... 1:17:59 comprised of the v- the university, the city chamber, and a couple other members and, and they're working on a variety of different things. 1:18:07 We have a big event coming up over 4th of July, and then when the students' move-in day is what we call it- Oh, yeah... when the freshmen come in, we're gonna have several events planned for them. 1:18:19 Actually, at graduation, we had the big- Shoot one of them up. [laughs] Thank you. I got a- Guess which one. I got this one. No. So on graduation- I guess that'd be bad... that week, we had the America 250 flag- Yeah... 1:18:32 on one, at the- I guess there... corner coming into town. So we've been doing different things throughout the, throughout the year. That's cool. How big a flag is it? It's huge, right? It was huge. It was huge. Yeah. 1:18:43 Yeah, it was, it was massive. How much did that cost? What's that? How much did that cost? A lot of liquor money, I bet. Oh. [laughs] Well, actually, the flag, the flag was traveling across the state. 1:18:52 It was, the flag was traveling. Yeah. Yeah. The flag was traveling. Yeah. Oh, okay. So it's, it's already left Vermillion and gone on to the next community. Oh, that's how that works? Yeah. It's flipping around. 1:18:59 I thought they were, like, putting them up and leaving them there- No... in every town. It's, it's a, it's going around the state. So- Yeah. So it must cost a lot 'cause they can't afford to buy every town. 1:19:07 [laughs] But, uh, y- that's really cool that you guys are doing that. 1:19:11 It's kinda, uh, in some quarters, the America 250 thing is be- is not being, it's being kinda frowned upon because, well, frankly, 'cause orange man's president, and the f- the, the reality is, I mean, that this g- it started under Obama. 1:19:25 I mean, the whole committee pr- planning- Mm-hmm... for all of this, so it's like a- Well, who cares who's president, right? But I know, but some people just, like, you know, think it's th- Yeah... 1:19:32 and so it's- Of course... I, it's great that it's, that I mean, the partisanship is not, it shouldn't be a partisan thing. It should be a celebration of a- Correct... damn good country, in my opinion. So- Yeah. 1:19:41 Actually, the reality is is it started 250 years ago. Cheers. Cheers. Yeah. [laughs] Cheers. Cheers to that, right? Heads up. There you go. Yeah. Um- Well, it's great that you're doing stuff about for it, so- Yeah... 1:19:52 yeah. But we, uh, your reporting found that some schools were not doing anything, and other schools, like Aberdeen, were. They were, they were all in, so. 1:19:58 Well, the city, I'm not sure, the, uh, Si- Sioux Falls School District, their, their answer was like, "No, we're not. There's, like, no directive to the s- to the school level, like the building level, 1:20:11 to do anything on this." It doesn't mean that the... I'm paraphrasing here, but they said, doesn't mean the f- the teach- the social studies teachers aren't incorporating it into what they're teaching. But, um, 1:20:24 according to Carrigan, and the... I had people asking their kids too, right, in Sioux Falls. It didn't sound like it was anything. But up in Aberdeen, uh, 1:20:35 where the sheriff and the po- and the city don't get along- Right... remember? Right. Full circle there. Uh, they're, like, kicking ass on it, I guess, and, like, totally leaning into it. Yeah. So, I don't know. 1:20:49 Politics could have something to do with that, but I don't know. Hopefully we leave that out. That, that- Yeah... that's why I like the local government, is it's a non-partisan position I have- Right... 1:21:00 so you don't have to worry about party politics, right? Right. The, nobody, nobody cares if it's a Republican or a Democrat that's coming in to fill your pothole, right? 1:21:07 You know, the Dems and Republicans, they all hate data centers. [laughs] [laughs] There's truth to that, right? [laughs] You know, there's some commonality, right? [laughs] Yeah. 1:21:17 Like pop, well, horseshoe theory, things like that too. But on municipal stuff, um, you're not making, uh, policy on, like, red team, blue team stuff- Correct. Yeah... all the time. No, no, and that's just it. 1:21:34 And, and I always tell, say is like, "At the end of the day, we still gotta live next door to each other." Yeah. So, and we all want the same thing. We all, we all want, you know, good infrastructure for our s- our city. 1:21:46 We want, you know, quality of life with parks- Yeah... and a safe place to raise our family, public safety. Yeah. 1:21:51 And we all want the same things, just, you know, how are we getting there, the money we're spending to get there, right? That's- Yeah... that's the most contentious stuff is, is really, like, how and how much. 1:22:02 The means to the ends or whatever. Right. But- Right... uh, you guys got elections going on right now? Where'd you settle on, on, uh, having to hitch the wagon on municipal elections to the statewide? 1:22:14 So we already had ours with the primary elections. Okay. We've been doing that in Vermillion for years. Okay. So we didn't, it didn't affect us with that- Oh... new legislation at all. 1:22:24 Uh, so yes, we do have, uh, municipal elections coming up here. How was your turnout usually? We had pretty good turnout. Uh, well- Think you're- My... Let me rephrase this. Historically speaking- Yeah... 1:22:36 okay, so the last, uh, at least turnout for my election when I was elected to office, was the highest turnout we've seen for mayor elections. 1:22:45 Uh, well, when I crunched the numbers, it was at least the last seven mayor elections. Mm. So- It's like a referendum. Yeah. So it was a, it was a good turnout. But, you know- What's the number on it, though? 1:22:54 Uh, it was in the, I believe it was like 30% of registered voters. That's pretty high for a city election. Yeah. For a city election, yeah. Yeah, for registered voters, yeah. Mm. So that's just it. 1:23:03 I mean, it was pretty good. Was that the school board election too, at the same time? Yes, it was. Yep. Yeah, so our school board and our municipality are at the same time as the primary. So that's all done in June. 1:23:14 Yeah. The only, the only other outlier is, is the school board had, um, three-year terms, so there's a- Yeah... off year with them sometimes. Yeah. 1:23:24 And obviously, those don't get the turnout like you do when you have it paired with a- Yeah... a primary election of a, like right now it's a governor's election as well. Sure. I think that was a Greg Jamison bill 1:23:36 that changed the, uh- That changed that? Yeah. Well, and I, from my understanding, I think that was all geared to help with turnout. Yeah. You know? And cost ef- And cost... like, 'cause if you're doing three-year cycles 1:23:49 or terms, there's gonna be times when you have no one to partner with. Right, right. You know? 'Cause the cities don't do three-year terms typically. Well, that was one of the biggest reasons 1:23:59 years and years ago that the city of Vermillion hitched to the June election, because the county handles everything. Mm. So unless there's a special election, the city doesn't have to pay all that- 1:24:11 Remobilization fees, right? Exactly, right. Yeah, so it saves t- 'Cause economic development- That's taxpayer-... they're like building... taxpayer dollars, right? That's- Yeah... 1:24:19 that's, that's just being good stewards of money. That's why we need to spend twice as much now. Sorry, bust your chat. 1:24:27 [laughs] Well, from your perspective though, that's, it's worked well then to have those, because this will be a first for Sioux Falls, and you know, everybody's- Right. Yeah... 1:24:34 gonna be wondering how, how the turnout's gonna be. I mean, obviously competitive mayor's race, that the governor's race will drive turnout. Uh, but yeah, so we're, for us it's gonna be m- kind of see how it works. Yeah. 1:24:44 It, it's, it's definitely gonna be interesting for Sioux Falls, 'cause also, like I said, we're pretty, I mean, it's a five, a five-way r- race right now, right, for the mayor. There's five candidates. 1:24:55 Yeah, five candidates. There's five candidates, and you gotta hit 50 plus 1, so the chance of a runoff is gonna be huge. 1:25:02 Um, it's gonna be interesting to see what your turnout is for June, and then with the runoff, if there is a runoff. Yeah. I mean, we're all watching this. Yeah, but we don't have any precedent- Yeah, we don't... 1:25:13 for a lot of this, so. Sure. Sure. Yeah. I know it's, uh, gonna be a lot easier to cover the runoffs- Gonna-... than it is this thing. Yeah. Yeah. 1:25:20 Well, that's 'cause you're not gonna have any other ones that to worry about. I know, yeah. Yeah. There's, like, too much to cover, but- And if there's a runoff with the governor's race, that'll be further down the road. 1:25:30 Yes. So you'll actually have another one- Yeah... in Sioux Falls. And that's nice, 'cause you can breathe a little bit. Well- But- For you as a journalist. But no, for the voter, that's- It's a lot of fatigue, I bet. 1:25:40 Yeah. Right? Yeah. We shall see. I hope your psychology professors or, uh, sociology professors, I guess, would be watching this. Studying, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe statistics. Yeah. 1:25:50 Um- I know my mailbox will be ready for this election to be done with. [laughs] Oh yeah, you're getting a lot of the cards. All the mailers, yeah. All the mailers. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 1:25:58 It'd be fun to cover your district, though, more. 'Cause you guys actually have, like, general elections that are competitive down there, 'cause you have progressives Yeah. Yeah. 1:26:09 I, I mean, our, our, uh, our district, you know, w- currently right now the legislators that are in our district work really well with us. Yes. Uh, they really, really well. Yes. 1:26:20 And, you know, the, the cl- I talk about the collaboration all the time in our community, but that includes our legislators. 1:26:25 Like, for me to be able to pick up a phone and, you know, call or text, you know, Senator Davis or Representative Casson on an issue, it's, it's pretty easy to get a quick turnaround, and if there's concerns we can, we can have a meeting. 1:26:40 You know, when we had the flooding, what, two years ago when our wastewater facility got flooded and took out the force mains there. Oh, yeah. 1:26:47 You know, uh, it activated the emergency operations, and Senator Davis was there right away saying, "All right, what do you need from the state?" 1:26:54 You know, and would put us in connections with people at the state, like right away. And that was- That was the same time as the McCook Lake stuff. Yep. Yes. Yeah, it was all during the same time. With all that flooding? 1:27:04 Yeah. Yep. Yeah. So that was all during that same time. And we got... We were very fortunate because, and I say fortunate because the flooding that affected us, the damage was, it was the wastewater facility. 1:27:15 It was mostly the public infrastructure of the wastewater facility. We did not have the private- Yeah. Yeah... um, residences that were affected like McCook Lake was. Mm-hmm. And I say that's we're fortunate because 1:27:27 it wasn't displacing families. Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. It wasn't people's livelihoods, you know, going down the river, things like that. Yeah. 1:27:33 I would much rather see, you know, us as the public infrastructure trying to resolve that issue than somebody's personal property and home. 1:27:42 Well, and the public infrastructure damages are eligible for, like FEMA- FEMA, correct... reimbursement too, right? Right. Yeah. So. Yeah. Where private, you know, like you have insurance or you don't. Right. Exactly. 1:27:52 So. And, and ironically is we're in the middle of renovating and rebuilding our wastewater facility. So [laughs] it really... You know, if you look at a glass half full kind of thing, right? Mm-hmm. 1:28:08 It, it just helped, um- Bring that on... push that along. Push that along. Right? [laughs] Look at our members. I mean... No. [laughs] Definitely not. He can control that. If I can control the river, right? 1:28:19 [laughs] Yeah. It's like, it's like, it's like you got a roof that's, uh, 20 years old and the hailstorm rolls on through- Uh-huh... and you get a new roof out of it. Right. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. You know? 1:28:27 [laughs] Well, and the reality is what happened was that that river over the years, it just cut that river bottom and it finally exposed the pipes, and we were unaware of that. Mm. 1:28:38 So when that flooding happened, you know, the trees, the debris coming down c- caught those pipes and, and took them away. Wow. 1:28:47 And so basically what it is, we, we end up having to then dig the pipes underneath, go further back, dig them deeper, and had that not happened, we would've rebuilt that wastewater facility. Ooh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 1:29:01 So it actually- Yeah... I mean, like I said, being optimistic about it- Yeah. [laughs]... it was probably a good thing. And- Yeah... you know, we were able to... Again, a lot of that was with FEMA. 1:29:10 Um, and then on top of the FEMA money to help out with that, we had already qualified for a $5 million EDA grant, you know, with collaboration of Senator Rounds' office- Yeah... 1:29:22 and communication with that, so that's, that's helped our costs on- Mm... that whole project as well. So it was, it was a lot of stuff. And I mean, that's the world I live in. 1:29:31 A lot of people don't realize that when they flush the toilet, these are the, the problems that I gotta think about. Right. Yeah. Yeah. People don't think about plumbing until it doesn't work. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 1:29:40 Yeah. We've had a few of those issues here in Sioux Falls too, where the, where they've had, uh, flooding has caused, you know, the wastewater stuff- Yeah... to have to be released, discharged. 1:29:49 And, uh, think Mayor Huether had to deal with that issue once, so. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, speaking of infrastructure and things, so what, Joe, what dorm were you in when you- I didn't live in the dorms. 1:29:59 Never lived in the dorms? No. No. Uh, I went to USDSU, DSU, or whatever that thing was- Oh, yeah. [laughs]... in Sioux Falls. Yeah. You know, where all the s- Now USDS Sioux Falls. Yeah, something like that. 1:30:13 I know, like I, I didn't belong. [laughs] Uh... Uh... Satellite campus. The satellite. Well, it was satellite campus, I guess. Um, when I graduated from high school, 1:30:24 I enrolled at USD, and I think my major was gonna be, like elementary administration or something like that. Gotcha. I don't even know that person. I don't know who that person was. Yeah. What, who is that dude? 1:30:34 [laughs] Yeah. I know. Well, I, apparently I just threw a dart at a board or something. I ended up dro- like quitting before the time period where you couldn't get any money back. Uh-huh. Right? 'Cause 1:30:45 I never had to read after school in high school. You know, I'm supposed to read 100 pages a night, and work and stuff. Like that wasn't gonna work yet. 1:30:53 So I, like sowed some wild oats and like, you know, ended up enrolling back, uh, when I was like 21. I moved to Vermillion. Okay. Gotcha. So. Gotcha. It was great. Well, the reason why I'm asking is- [laughs]... 1:31:07 'cause that's what's going on this summer now, is the dorms are gonna be going- Completely renovated... completely renovated. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Well, so- All the way... along, along with the law school. Yep. 1:31:16 Same thing. Yeah. Yeah. So- Well... we'll start with Olsen. We actually already have. And then when Olsen's complete, we'll move on to Beade, and then when Beade's complete, we'll move on to Mickelson. 1:31:28 And then the North Complex, as they call it- Yeah... the four that are connected, will be completely renovated. Hmm. Um, head to toe. Do they all have TVs put in? 1:31:37 It was a big deal when they built Kiow Village and they, all the rooms had flat screens, and, um- Everybody has their own television now, so- Yeah... we stopped doing that. 1:31:47 You see, you see televisions in the dumpster at move out time too nowadays. Yes. Wow. What day is that? Yeah. [laughs] [laughs] But, but no, that, and that's been one of the things that 1:31:58 with the university doing that, you know, it's a... You know, they'll take that unit offline and it'll push some students out in the community. Um, so we have this, you know, multi-family housing surge now. 1:32:09 We have s- these, these apartments that are going up and, and obviously that's gonna put students out there that'll, that'll live in, in wherever in the community. But- 1:32:18 As university grows, I mean, those apartments are still gonna stay filled too. Huh. 1:32:23 So that's, that's kind of the, the push with all this development in town, and, and our goals with that housing going up, the businesses are gonna go up as well and, and everything's gonna, you know, be good, so. 1:32:34 And had that housing not happened, we wouldn't be able to do this. Yeah. Yeah. Because there weren't enough beds in town until recently to be able to do this. And this is that money that, um, 1:32:48 it was the housing grants and loan stuff that like... that ended up getting delayed a couple years ago. 1:32:53 So the housing grant, not on this, these projects, the housing grant money that we applied for has gone towards single family homes. 1:33:01 Uh, a portion of that has gone towards the Jack Paul addition up by the law enforcement center, yeah. So those, we, we haven't broke ground on h- apartments out there as of yet. 1:33:11 There is a couple plots that are for that if somebody wants to develop it. Yeah. But the other apartments and multifamily housing has grown on other locations that have not been applied for that are growing. 1:33:22 Like pri- like privately. Privately. Correct. Yep, yep. Yeah, they're all privately. But we did, we have done some, um... One of them is, uh, uh, it's called Solera. 1:33:31 Uh, it's a developer that's actually out of the Sioux Falls area. Okay. Um, Vermillion utilized, they utilized, we used, we put into a TIF district, which also helped us put infrastructure and roadway. 1:33:41 There's people listening to this going, "Rah." Yep, yeah. [laughs] Probably. They triggered, like- But, but- James got triggered... but, but, but the reality of it is, is it forces the development, right? Yeah. And I... 1:33:54 Here's the one thing I really, was really cool, it's like by them do- taking it privately, doing that, putting that roadway through, that infrastructure, it probably happened, what, twice as fast as any other infrastructure in the city- Mm-hmm... 1:34:08 because it's done privately. So that road got put up quicker. Like, let's be real, nothing happens fast in government. Mm-hmm. Nothing does. So for the private developer to go, "Oh, no, we'll do it for you"- Yeah... 1:34:19 it was much more efficient, quicker, and honestly, I think it was cheaper too when that... 1:34:25 'Cause when we looked at what a road cost to put something through, and then turn around and a private developer does it, it, it's usually cheaper because- It's not government... it's not government. Yeah, yeah. 1:34:37 I mean, I, I think- Say no more. I think, yeah, [laughs] I think we can all say, like, yeah. The, those developers or contractors, I think, uh, they- They- They've got it down... 1:34:47 they've got it down when it comes to government work or government paid work. Yeah. Yeah. Well, the, uh... I think it's interesting topic. We're just... 1:34:57 This, obviously we already mentioned this will publish after the primary election, but we're touching on economic development, and I think this will be a big sort of test, you know? So, so while you listen to this, 1:35:13 right, you're either gonna be, like, super happy- [laughs]... we have some pro-economic development legislators that won their primaries, or, uh, otherwise, like a repeat of two years ago. Do you see... 1:35:25 Are you kind of... You know what I'm talking about? Yeah, yeah. You're talking about the divide of- Yeah... elections or whatever. Well, yeah, there is. 1:35:30 There's a divide in the state capital about what is economic development. Yes. And it's been kind of a taboo wor- word in Pierre. And- Feels like everybody's all or none on it... right. 1:35:41 And the reality it is though is, is if we don't have economic development and growth, then we're gonna end up choking ourselves with out with taxes, right? Yeah. 1:35:52 Property taxes is also a big word, and if you don't develop and grow, well, paying for the infrastructure is gonna continue to go up. 1:36:02 You have to pay for it somehow, so if you're not growing then you're just gonna tax the same person over and over and over again. 1:36:07 Maybe, uh, Sheila, you could start a class or like the, just helping the community, teach about logic. 1:36:16 [laughs] Growth and- Well- People don't seem to quite understand that, like, growth actually helps keep property taxes lower. Right. Like, there's some disconnect in the reality there that, I don't know, I guess that's 1:36:32 up to us and, and, uh, other people to explain to people, but I don't know if it's people know how to read. Well, no, the, the... 1:36:39 Not only is the growth gonna help on the property tax, broaden that tax base, but you grow and you're also gonna grow that sales tax base too. Yeah. 1:36:46 So there's, I mean, there's really two taxes that s- State South Dakota collects, and that's sales tax and property tax. Do they pay sales tax on, like, food at the, like, the Muck? Yes. They do? Yep. Okay. Yep. 1:36:59 Just curious. I thought of that earlier. I wanted to ask the question, and I'll throw it in now. Don't care where it goes. 1:37:05 [laughs] Well, we were bagging on the school district a little, or school districts here a little bit, but I, I'm curious from your perspective, um, going to public education, are you seeing... 1:37:14 Like, we're seeing s- proficiency scores go down. I mean, is that something that you have to deal with as a university with students coming in, uh- More remedial... remedial type stuff? 1:37:24 Are, is that something that USDE has to deal with? Um, certainly. Uh, we, we do things like the math emporium for students to try and get them, like, their own pace and, and work with them. 1:37:39 We meet students where they are. I think that's something that, that we do really, really well, and, and try to help them accomplish the best version of themselves, right? 1:37:50 So those students coming in, we get them up to speed as quickly as we can, I guess is maybe a better way. Is, is it a big, bigger populate- Is it getting... Is that population getting bigger? 1:38:00 I don't know that we've seen it yet, but we, we know that it might be coming because- The bed wetters are coming. [laughs] I would not put it that way at all. 1:38:09 [laughs] The, uh, there, there's a- There's that part right there [laughs] There's a requirement though that they ha- Is, is there an algebra requirement, uh, for graduation? Yeah. Yeah. 1:38:17 There, there are admission, or admission standards in terms of- Yeah... how many math Um, and English courses and science courses- Mm-hmm... and, and those sorts of things. 1:38:28 And, and certainly most take the ACT because that's what we generally use- Yep... for awarding scholarships. Yep. So- I saw the, I saw- Not seen that go down... 1:38:38 I saw something recently where Yale is now starting to, "We're gonna start using the ACT and SAT again," or whatever. It's like for they, they had a few years where they weren't using it. 1:38:46 I, I always thought that that was kind of crazy that some- Math is racist, you know. That was a thing there for a little while. I don't know what their reasoning was, but- 1:38:53 You, uh- We, but, but our school's never w- never stepped away from standardized tests as- We, we never required it for admission- Yeah... but in order to get a scholarship, you really did need to take the ACT. Okay. 1:39:05 Okay. 'Cause that, that's really sort of how we set that criteria for the most part. It seems to me like public education is kind of turning back to where it was more traditionally, but that's just... 1:39:15 I, I don't read, like, The Chronicle of Higher Education or anything, but I mean, it just seems like the... 1:39:19 What I, what I do know about it, it seems like they're kinda like, "Well, we need to kind of go back to where we were a little bit," so. Yeah, yeah. Do you read The Chronicle of Higher Education? Every morning. 1:39:27 [laughs] Do you really? Every morning, yep. Okay. We, we get a little- They do-... email. They send out articles and- Yeah... click on that every morning. Yeah. Grab my coffee. Interesting. 1:39:38 Well, they do, they do good work. I- They do... you know, it's not something, like, I read every morning obviously, but, you know, so. Yeah, yeah. 1:39:43 This is the third, this is the third podcast recording in a row where Ian Fury has called me. Yeah. Just so you know, so. [laughs] Well, we were talking about law school, Olson- Yeah... and some of the residence halls. 1:39:53 Some of the other renovations, I just wanna give a shout-out to our state lawmakers and the Board of Regents for helping us with something we've called Facilities Preservation. Mm. Um, 'cause we were talking- Yeah... 1:40:05 about infrastructure and, and not knowing about some things, and that can be a real disaster. Well, 1:40:12 we, we've gone through our campus, and because of the M&R funding and the help there, we've been able to completely renovate the South Dakota Union Building. 1:40:21 I don't know if your psychology department- What's the South Dakota Union Building? Yep. That was- Where's that on campus? It's right next to, um, the National Music Museum. Okay. 1:40:34 And then- On the south side of the- Yep... main campus. Yes. Yeah. And then Churchill Haynes, the old chemistry biology building, that will be done next summer. 1:40:44 And recently with the last appropriation, we'll be able to do Dakota Hall, which is- Yeah... political science predominantly. Yep. And we've really just been able to knock off a lot. 1:40:55 In total between the state investment and some institutional facilities dollars, uh, we've invested $85 million into renovating and, uh, upgrading academic buildings only. 1:41:09 That's not even re-n- that's not the residence halls. That's not the athletics facilities. That's just academics. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's good because I think sometimes 1:41:21 people think too much investment goes into the non-academic stuff. Right. I don't think we talk about the academic- Yeah... investments that we make enough. Yeah. And we need to do better at that. Yeah. 1:41:32 Well, we're looking forward to the invitation to come- Yeah... and, uh, when the law school's done and look around a bit. Looking forward to hosting. We'll, uh... 1:41:38 What, what's the kind of the d- the, the timeline on finishing that? I better double check that. Okay. But- Well, have your people reach out to our people- Definitely... and then we'll let you know. Definitely. 1:41:49 [laughs] Well, I mean, President Gestring and Mayor Cole really- If, if you find out- Yeah... what happens when you buy a college- [laughs] Thanks for coming. Yeah. Thanks for being on the, on the show. Appreciate it. 1:42:02 Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for having us. Absolutely. [gentle music] Prepare yourself for a comfortable and relaxed experience when you shop at June Sleep Systems for your next mattress. It's where you'll find your mattress zen. 1:42:18 Welcome to June. Welcome to June. It's a complete 180 from what you're used to with mattress shopping. 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Anheuser-Busch, Busch, and Busch Light Beer. St. Louis, Missouri. Beale Distributing. Sioux Falls, South Dakota. 1:43:39 Yeah, so tell us about your tweet. No, I, I, I mean, I told you- Yeah... a few nights ago that I- You, you, uh, admire him greatly. I do. I said before, he's g- Look at, look into each other's eyes. 1:43:51 [laughs] I will not be doing that. No, it, it, look, it, as I said, his job is way harder than mine. It, you know, he, he has a flawed candidate, and he does an amazing job of propping him up. 1:44:01 And look, back to his point about all the Lincoln Day dinners, I... 1:44:05 Look, say what you want about, you know, Toby Doud and John Hansen, those guys went all over the state, went to, you know, every Lincoln Day dinner, went all over, you know, every county, visited them. 1:44:15 You know, you certainly don't see Governor Rhoden doing that. You do see I- Ian Fury doing that, and he does a great job when he does it. 1:44:20 He shows up- You know, you know, Governor Rhoden was the first governor in decades to visit Britton, South Dakota And Governor Rhoden won Marshall County. On this campaign- It's like 14. First one since Franklin... 1:44:32 um, I, I understand. [laughs] But on this campaign, I went to Britton for the first time. I went to Lemmon for the first time in my life. 1:44:39 Uh, I mean- Listen, uh, t- t- We're, we're, we're, we're, we're once again- You're, we're not, we're not gonna- We're once again hearing another example of the Dodin campaign not operating in the realm of fact... 1:44:47 but you, you guys- Whoa. Toby, Toby Dodin went to all 66 counties- And, and twice... twice... and I'm not disputing that... including all nine reservations- And-... including a, a bunch of the hundred counties... 1:44:56 and I'm not disputing that, but this is the difference between selling your own results and tearing down somebody else. 1:45:02 Oh, listen, I'm not- You're, you're, you're, you're, you're saying falsehoods about the sitting governor who's delivered a hell of a job as governor, a record of results, and has in fact traveled this state for the l- for the only the last few months of session, 'cause he was focused on doing his job, but in that very short period of time, he put a lot of miles on the tires. 1:45:21 Listen, I have, I respectfully disagree with you about the job that Governor Rhoden has done. I think that 75% of the, uh, Republican voters in South Dakota agree with that. 1:45:32 Uh, I don't think he'll be successful in re-election. That doesn't change the, the respect that I have for him as a, as a public servant. 1:45:39 Um, and it certainly doesn't change the respect that I have for you as a political professional. I think you do a great job. I think he's very lucky to have you. 1:45:46 I, I literally credit, and I've said this, I may have, I literally would credit you with his ability to make that runoff, because the odds did not have him there. The, the, the political experts did not have him there. 1:45:58 You know, our campaign came in, uh, you know, to, to Tuesday, um, o- under the impression that, you know, our, our polling did not have you guys in second place, but we definitely said, "Look, I think late breakers, uh, who are just disenfranchised by the attacks could go to the governor." 1:46:14 We definitely were under the i- uh, the impression that we could end up in a runoff with you guys. D- That's where it ended up. Uh- Ian, Ian, you used to be, when you came on the scene, Governor Noem, 2020, right? 1:46:27 That's when you moved here. Spring of 2020, right. April 2020. You, you quickly earned the name Sparky on Twitter. Do you like that name? I think I still have it in my bio. Me, uh, uh, 'cause you're... 1:46:38 I always thought that name, 'cause I- you're like a little chihuahua that would go out and bark at people and keep people from- [laughs] You know? 1:46:46 Like, you're like the mouthpiece if you needed to, like, clap at someone online. But the governor's been, his has been, uh, the, uh, Governor Rhoden has been all about civility and things like that. 1:46:58 Did he deliberately tell you not to keep your Sparky persona, or how has that transitioned for you? Well, you, you... A team reflects the personality of its captain. Um, 1:47:14 Governor Rhoden has a style that is leading with civility. I've called it civility-driven conservative results. Um- I guess you bark enough to be spoken. How about... Oh, wait, I have a question. 1:47:27 I, I mean this is a genuine question. Like, do you, do you believe that, uh, Governor Rhoden's... I hear him talk about civility quite a bit. He does use that word a lot. 1:47:38 Do you think that's something that's new to the way he governs, or has he kind of been that way? I'm asking this as a genuine question, somebody who d- doesn't know him well personally. 1:47:45 So I've known him since I moved here in 2020. Um, you know, I, I tell a story about one of my first ex- experiences with him, was I went out to his ranch probably in May 2020 for a branding. 1:47:57 It was actually the last year that he branded before he sold, sold off his herd. Did it hurt? Well, I didn't get branded. [laughs] Sorry. The Yellowstone. You know, I, I- That's the Yellowstone, yeah... 1:48:06 the, the- You moved here a month later, they took him out for the branding... the kid from Houston had never been to a branding before. You know, my cowboy boots were a little shinier back then. Um, but- Yeah... 1:48:16 but the way that he led even then, you know, smile on his face, laughing with his sons and with his neighbors and friends, feeding everybody lunch. That's just who he is as a person. 1:48:28 I do- I, I don't think that, I don't think his personality's changed one bit as long as I've known him. And, uh, 1:48:34 another thing that's telling is how many of the folks who support him, especially legislators or former legislators who support him, are people who have worked with him for 20 years and have that built-up level of respect for the way that he comports himself in those types of situations. 1:48:50 So he's... Again, I, I'm a big, like, in terms of, like, judging people personally, I'd, I would never judge a person personally that I, that I don't know, I've never interacted with. 1:48:59 I've, I think I've shaken hands with the governor twice at, at random events, so I don't know him at all. He's got pretty hands. I- Pretty hands. Thank you, Joe. [laughs] But I mean, he... 1:49:10 So I don't know him at all personally. He has been described to me, uh, by a number of people as having this, like, super hot temper, pops off, gets super angry behind the scenes. 1:49:21 Um, and so again, obviously I've not experienced that. I don't, I don't, I don't know that to be true. But I'm just curious if that's something that you think. Is, would you describe it that way? 1:49:29 I, I can- I've heard that about your guy too... I cannot think of one time that Governor Rhoden has raised his voice at someone on our team. 1:49:38 Uh, you know, I think if, if I were to ask that question anonymously to our staff, every person to a person would tell you, "Yeah, there's-" So no Amy Klobuchar moments? Oh, absolutely not. Like throwing staplers. 1:49:52 He's... But, you know, as, as a major- He was eating a, eating-... as a majority leader-... eating salad with a comb. 1:49:55 [laughs] A- as a majority leader, though, you know, when he was house majority leader, I mean, he's had... You, you gotta run a kind of a... I mean, sometimes you gotta, you know- Sometimes you gotta bark... 1:50:06 you gotta bark at people, you know? Sure. So that's- Yeah, and my question, I mean- You do need to know when to be direct. I mean, I got, I got- Yeah... I know sometimes... I got, I got two kids. 1:50:13 You need to know when to be a little, "Hey, knock it off" Sometimes you be- Right?... just kidding. That's not temper. [laughs] That's, that, that's discipline. Um- Oh, sure. Yeah. So I'm, and I'm, yeah, I'm not... 1:50:23 Most of the things that have been relayed to me, I'm not talking... Listen, nobody wants to be in the leadership in any form of government. It's a hard job. Like, whipping votes, that's a hard job. 1:50:32 I've heard- I don't, I mean, I don't know if I really appreciate the way you led into that because I don't know. But I- Wait, wait, why? I've heard Larry, Larry and me have had, had stern conversations before. Yeah. 1:50:43 I'm not talking about s- no, and first of all, my question was from a genuine position. Like I... People tell me stories all the time about people, and I'm like, "Yeah, whatever. I've never seen that. I don't know." 1:50:51 Yeah. So he, I mean, he's talking about how a core piece of their platform- Yeah... is civility, and so I was just asking out of, from a curiosity standpoint, like does he, does he feel that that's... 1:50:58 Is that truly the governor all the time, or is that, you know, campaign talk? The man, the man you see at events, on your television, who, who you'll run into at, uh, 1:51:10 at the Perkins or the Pizza Ranch is exactly the man who, who I met on that ranch back in May 2020, who I have the privilege of sitting in meetings with where we deliver results for the people of South Dakota. 1:51:22 That's nice. I mean, he, he's a, he, he's a guy who routinely tells our staff, "We're focused on good policy, not what makes for good politics. Uh, we can disagree without being disagreeable." 1:51:34 These are things that he tells us, and- Good... and that, that's exactly how he, how he actually leads. What? Did Governor Noem say go out and slit their throats? Is that different? I don't think I ever heard that. 1:51:45 Oh, okay. Anything to get to the ends. [laughs] Any means for the ends. Uh- How do you... What's the style... I mean, obviously we can see the style difference between Governor Noem and Governor Rhoden. 1:51:57 Um, and again, a lot has happened since you worked for her and where we are now. Um, do you guys just not talk about her at all? The policies- [laughs]... 1:52:07 that she stands for, you know, Governor Rhoden always says that there's not really any political daylight between them. Their leadership styles are very different, and we've, we've always been open about that fact. 1:52:17 I mean, she... He, he tends to lead by convening, by listening to the opinions of everybody around him and then making a decision. She generally knows what she wants to do, and then she goes and executes. 1:52:28 So that's, that's just a different leadership style and, and personality differences. And I mean, but we are certainly proud of the record of accomplishments of six years of the Noem-Rhoden administration. 1:52:40 I mean, God bless, we have the strongest economy in America. We made South Dakota the most pro-life, the most pro Second Amendment state in America. What's not to be proud of? 1:52:48 Well, that, that wa- the noise that our listeners were hearing, it was ice hitting a glass. It was not a beer cracking. Because it's Friday on election week, and we've... I think we've all deserved a good, uh, 1:53:03 just a good bender. [laughs] You know? Oh, no. [laughs] Uh, you're going, you're going- I'm going to Disneyland... to Disneyland. 1:53:12 Was that, like, when you win the Super Bowl or something, you say, "I'm going to Disneyland"? So, so- Is that the plan? 1:53:18 So one thing that Disney does, so I've got a son who turned three at the beginning of May and a daughter who's one, but one thing that Disney does is if you're under three you can get into the park free. 1:53:28 And so people will often, like, have basically a third birthday party at... And my wife is obsessed with Disney. Ha- Jo- Jonah knows Hannah pretty well. Hannah loves Disney. 1:53:37 [laughs] Um, and so we were gonna do that- It is magical... right, right before- It's, uh, it really is... his birthday in May- [laughs]... 1:53:43 and then Governor Rhoden asked me to, uh, to serve as his campaign manager, and so that wasn't gonna happen. 1:53:48 And so we, we planned this trip for the weekend right after the primary thinking that, you know, one way or another the primary's gonna be resolved, and here we are in a runoff. But I think- You can take a breather... 1:53:58 for, for starters, uh, I think the people of South Dakota are sick of the ads, and here in Sioux Falls they're gonna keep getting some for a few weeks, but, uh, you're gonna see us slow down. 1:54:08 It didn't make air, but the governor told Dakota News Now yesterday, "You're not gonna see any ads from Rhoden for governor for a few weeks here." Well, it's not on our website either right now. No, yeah. 1:54:17 So- I, I asked you to take that down... the, the, uh... Well, I was, I guess what I was leading up to is I'm drinking whiskey because we earned it, and, uh, here's... I'll see you Monday, Ellis. Cheers. Uh, [laughs] 1:54:29 co- when I co- when I surface. Uh, so you don't tweet much, though. I go through sp- You're not a clap, clap at g- people like Ian or whatever. No, I, I go through spurts. I mean, I think the biggest thing is you, 1:54:44 in this business, we live in, like, a 24/7 news cycle, but on the other side of this there's gonna be the governing business, um, which is, you know, requires you to have relationships with people and can't go burn a bunch of bridges down. 1:54:58 Um, you know, the candidates that, that, that did a lot of that are, are not moving on to this runoff. 1:55:03 So I try to, a- again, like genuinely have a lot of respect for Ian, like hope to work with Ian, you know, in a future administration. But how do you, how do you say that? 1:55:10 Because I, I feel like Toby went after people more than anybody else personally. Like, he's more like- He-... Trump in that he'll- Give me an ex-... he'll tweet- Give me, give me an example. 1:55:18 Well, when he- Well, let's-... when he tweeted about, uh- I don't think Ian's sleeping very well. I don't think Tony's sleeping very well. I think Larry sleeps just fine. Or- He said that on this podcast a week ago. 1:55:28 Well, and then what, this time about Rhoden- Have, have, have- But that's not, but he-... have you ever heard Governor Rhoden say, "I don't think Matt Hurley sleeps very well"? 1:55:34 I don't, I don't think Governor Rhoden knows who I am, but that's okay. [laughs] I mean, I don't think he, uh, he does know who I am. I mean, he's, he's introduced himself to me several times, and, but it's okay. 1:55:42 That's not the point. I mean, first of all, that's not a personal attack. That's his opinion. He says, "I don't think that Tony Venhuizen, I don't think Ian Fury are sleeping very well. 1:55:49 I'm sure Larry's sleeping just fine." That's just his opinion. He's not- Well, the, the- That's not the-... the example you're looking for, though, I, the one that comes to mind is when he tweeted or a social about, uh, 1:56:01 Dusty shaking down the governor about not getting in the race. That's not an attack. That's a, that is... First of all, that's a fact. That happened. That's a fact that happened. 1:56:09 I don't think either one of us is gonna deny that that happened. The... [laughs] So I mean, that, the... Like, talk about dealing in a realm of facts, that's a fact. 1:56:17 It happened, and when you called me about it, I said, "You don't need to call me." I said, "Call somebody in the Rhoden camp and ask them about it," right? 1:56:22 I mean, and look, and again, that's the type of politics by the way that I think we both agree South Dakotans rejected, right? 1:56:28 They, they're not gonna let an heir apparent come in and just bully people out of the election, you know, buy the election. Actually, if you go back and read that post, Toby's exact words were that... 1:56:38 His exact words were- Uh, Larry Rhoden is a fierce West River rancher and is never gonna be bullied out of this race, and shouldn't be bullied out of this race by some guy who's trying to pay him off. 1:56:48 He's a legitimate, tough guy. I think what- Yeah, but pay him off- I care- That's... As it was the, the, the insinuation, the words used in that tweet made- The, the-... 1:56:56 it seem like led people to believe there's actually, like, bribes happening The, the, the exact- Well, and the, and the, and the fact was there was the threat of super PACs stomping attack ads- The exact- But that materialized, and it didn't end up mattering The exact quote was, and I- I'll say this, the exact quote that we were told by two different sources 1:57:14 was, "I'm going to ram a million dollars down his effing throat," was the exact quote- [sighs]... that was used by two different- Did you hear that too? Can you confirm? I, I did not get that phone call. Hmm. He didn't. 1:57:27 Anyway, what I'm saying is- Well, you were in the room when he said it. [laughs] Look, I mean, again, this is... If, if there's anything we agree on, we agree that that happened. So my point- He said phone call. 1:57:37 He didn't say you were in the room. I mean, Joe, if you... But so, so the notion that, that Toby went on and was honest about some- with voters about shady stuff that was going on behind the scenes 1:57:48 makes him somebody who's attacking people? He wasn't attacking anyone. Well- He was- Is it shady, though? Isn't that what just happens in politics? Do you, to the voters or anyone- We're shady... 1:57:56 in South Dakota politics listening to this, do you think a candidate for governor saying that they're going to, quote, "Ram a million dollars down the effing throat", end quote, of another candidate for governor is not shady? 1:58:09 Th- this is one instance- I don't give... 1:58:10 No, that, this is politics This is one instance where I'll- It's politics This is one instance where I will agree with Matt, that the people of South Dakota rejected that style of politics. Yeah, 100%. 1:58:19 Well, and they've done it before, too. I mean, uh, in 2002, they did it in a, in a pretty heated governor's race. I mean, the, the guy who didn't get attacked or didn't attack, he was the one who, uh, emerged unscathed. 1:58:31 Do you think, do you think Dusty and his PACs, or the PACs that supported him, wish they would've spent more money attacking Toby Dodan? I think, I think- And- I think, I think that was a calculated decision. Well, yeah. 1:58:43 I think- And I'd say- I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna be pretty candid here. I think the reason why Toby Dodan came in first on Tuesday is because for the last three months, $2 million were spent attacking Larry Rhoden. 1:58:55 About a million dollars was spent attacking John Hanson. Uh, Dusty basically attacked himself and lit his own house on fire with his own money. Really, not a whole lot of attacks were sent Toby Dodan's way, 1:59:07 uh, and that was specifically because Dusty wanted to be in a runoff with Toby. He did not think he could get to 35%. He knew he couldn't. He did more polling than anybody in this race. He was never at 35%. 1:59:19 He wanted Toby in the runoff, so he didn't attack him in the same way as the other candidates. And so when the people of South Dakota are hearing this wall of noise, the DCBS, as we've called it, um, 1:59:33 and they see one candidate who's not being hit by them, they start to give that guy a second thought, and who can blame them? No one's saying anything bad about him, you know? Hmm. But now we're here in the runoff. 1:59:42 It's a different situation. 1:59:43 We don't have that wall of noise coming, and the two candidates can run on their records, on their visions, and on contrasts between each other, and I think it's gonna be a very different race. 1:59:53 Well, Toby doesn't really have a policy record. Yeah, so I wanna touch on that. The, the notion that, that Toby wasn't attacked because, uh, he- it's like they wanted to see him, you know, in a runoff is nonsensical. 2:00:07 I mean- No, it's not. I can corroborate that. [laughs] The answer, he- My, my, my reporting is that- Dusty would've preferred you- Sure. Of course. Yeah, sure. Dusty can say he would've preferred us. 2:00:15 First of all, you know, we were sneaking in on getting to 35%. Yeah. I mean, we, we beat... I mean, the, the, the... Like, we were within the margin of error of hitting 35%. We dominated these guys across the board. 2:00:26 The question becomes, and again, you could ask these other consultants, and we're gonna see it in this race. If, if they had artwork to attack Toby Dodan on, they would have used it. 2:00:35 They did attack him in the last, the waning days of the campaign with nonsensical, weak stuff that doesn't work. The, the- You mean, like, the data center stuff or- Yeah, which again, is, is baloney. 2:00:45 You know, they're hitting him on this, you know, you know, the... Some of the PACs are hitting him on this data center stuff, making up what his position is. His position's been very clear on the data centers. 2:00:54 You know, trying to claim that he's responsible for business decisions made by Chrysler Capital in 2008. Nonsense, because Toby's policies are the most popular, which is, again, why also he's going to win the race. 2:01:06 People don't- do not deal well with, like, es- especially in the world of President Trump. President Trump blew the lid off of personal attacks that don't draw back to policies that affect your life don't work. 2:01:18 Kamala Harris spent a billion dollars attacking President Trump, saying he's a this, attacking him personally, saying that, all this other stuff. 2:01:25 She lost all seven swing states because their entire message- That's not because she attacked Trump. Joe, hold on It's because she's a horrible candidate. I agree with you on that, but their whole thing... 2:01:32 People don't... Sort of just, Joe, the point I'm getting at is people don't go out and vote against stuff. They vote for stuff. Toby is the person that set forth a vision of what he's going to do. 2:01:42 The reason that, the reason that the governor's been ruthlessly attacked by Dusty Johnson is because the governor has a record that is unpopular. 2:01:50 His tax, his tax plan that they keep continuing to call the largest, quote-unquote, "The largest tax", you know, "property tax break in South Dakota history", polls unbelievably unpopular. 2:01:58 It's massively upside down when you look at it in polling. It's massively upside down, yet they continue to talk about it. The re- It, it's a massive sales tax hike, which is massively unpopular. 2:02:08 That's why they were attacked on it, because it's unpopular with the voters. Toby talks about letting out-of-staters pay to, to eliminate property taxes- [laughs]... 2:02:15 which I have no idea how out-of-staters are gonna pay $1.8 billion to eliminate all property taxes. Okay. 2:02:21 But I do know how out-of-staters are gonna help buy down 35% of our property taxes, and, uh, and that's the plan that Governor Rhoden delivered. 2:02:30 Governor Rhoden's plan raises sales taxes on 100% of South Dakota residents, 40% of which do not own any property. So 40% of- No, the- 40- The sales tax was gonna go up anyway It was going to go up anyway. 2:02:42 And it was not, not- And it was going to go up next year anyway. Hold on. Hold on It was also Dusty Johnson's plan, too. Hold on. 2:02:44 Not, not if Governor Rhoden, not if Governor Rhoden united the legislature as he says he can do, and- And he had said he would've signed that bill- Hold on... if it passed, and it didn't. 2:02:53 Hold on The Governor Noem said she would've signed that bill if it passed, and it didn't. I, I never interrupt him when he's going on his rants. Let me finish my rant. [laughs] The, here's the thing. 2:02:59 He, he raised sales tax, and it... He, he should've lowered the sales tax back to the Noem tax cuts- He should have done. We'll get back to Noem in a second. 2:03:06 The, the point of this here is that it- those policies are unpopular. And by the way, owner-occupied, uh, property taxes in the state of South Dakota are nowhere near $1.8 billion. They're $700 million. Those are... 2:03:20 And yes, Toby's been made very clear that he prioritizes those people over the people that do not live here. The tax burden in South Dakota today is unfairly on the back of people who live here. 2:03:31 The people who pay, who, who pay property taxes in Sturgis, South Dakota are footing the bill for the EMS services that go to the Sturgis bike rally. 2:03:39 The, the property tax, uh, payers in Custer County, South Dakota are massively paying for the EMS services that go to Custer State Park for tourists who come here and get mauled by buffaloes screwing around doing things they shouldn't be doing. 2:03:52 What we want, and what, what Toby's plan is, is he wants the people of South Dakota to come before the people who come here and utilize the, the services here. 2:04:00 And by the way, if Governor Noem has such faith in Governor Rhoden's amazing work that he did with her for quote unquote "for eight years," why hasn't she endorsed him in this race? 2:04:11 Why hasn't she stood up and told people of South Dakota to support Governor- She's not popular right now and that would hurt. That... Oh, she... Okay. 2:04:16 [laughs] We could, we could debate that for a second, but my point is, is if, if she 2:04:21 believes so whole heart- so wholeheartedly that he did such a great job in delivering her record, which in Ian's own words was amazing those eight years, and I agree with, they delivered a lot of good things. 2:04:30 Kept South Dakota free, open. There was a lot of good things that happened during that administration. But if Governor Noem thinks that Governor Rhoden is so responsible for that, why hasn't she endorsed him in the race? 2:04:39 I totally agree that the Sturgis bikers should help buy down our property taxes, so let them pay a little more sales tax. 2:04:45 I totally agree that the visitors to Custer State Park should help buy down our property taxes, so let them pay a little more sales tax. 2:04:52 Sales tax was going up anyway, and in the counties where it makes sense to trade the county option for lower property taxes, those counties will decide to. And those... 2:05:02 The places where property taxes have gone up the most just so happen to be the places with the most tourists. The difference- It is, it is... Oh, I thought you were gonna interrupt me. It is that simple. 2:05:12 [laughs] The differences between Dodan's plan and the governor's plan is that his plan is sales taxes across the board. It's on mothers, it's on groceries, it's on every single debit card swipe that happens in the state. 2:05:24 The Dodan plan is much more focused. It's on sin industries like alcohol, like gambling. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Yeah. This is the first time I'm hearing this. Is this all? No. That's a... 2:05:34 Th- First of all, that's- [laughs] You haven't, you haven't been to any of, of Toby's- [laughs] You haven't been to any of Toby's 200 buck stops where he talks about this routinely. I love sin. Actually out campaigning. 2:05:42 [laughs] I love sinning. [laughs] The vast majority of- Joe, I think that's a, I think that's a good place as where we're gonna find the edit. Joe Sneve loves sinning. No, no, no. I'm gonna cut that. 2:05:53 [laughs] No, I wanna ask, are you guys gonna, um... People keep asking me, "Do you think Trump will endorse?" I think he won't, because, like, what's the point? 2:06:05 Whoever wins the primary, they're both very pro-Trump, right? I don't think they... He doesn't have any liability if one of the other candidates wins, right? 2:06:13 Like, there's no, "Oh, shit, I got a problem on my hands"- Yeah... right? So what do you say when asked? I mean, certainly, are you guys working towards that? 2:06:22 And we talked, you asked about why hasn't Governor Noem come out. Um, maybe it's... I mean, she's kind of the conduit to him in most people's eyes. Tru- him being Trump. 2:06:34 Um- I learned, I learned while working for Jim Jordan that it's not always the most productive to spend a lot of time trying to predict what President Trump's gonna do or say. 2:06:43 Uh, it, it, it's best to, to ride the wave of the results when they come. Well, you making phone calls? Does that work it? 2:06:50 I think that, uh, I think that one, one of the candidates in this race has actually worked with President Trump to deliver results, has worked with ICE to help deport illegal alien criminals, has gotten, uh, illegal immigrants out of our prison system, has- Are they gone, gone? 2:07:06 Uh, a few dozen are, yes. Uh, and, and we're working towards more all the time. Um- That he's cut them loose? Has actually sent National Guard to the southern border to help secure the border. 2:07:15 Has actually sent National Guard to DC to help make DC safe and beautiful again. Has actually, was one of the first governors to opt into President Trump's Education Choice Program. 2:07:25 Uh, has worked with President Trump on the rural health transformation and worked with Dr. Oz on that. Is he our first veteran governor? He's not our first veteran governor. We, we've had a few. 2:07:35 He's our first governor since Joe Foss, who's a former guardsman to then serve as commander in chief of the National Guard. But Bill Janklow was a marine. Um- Yeah, Bill Janklow was a marine... 2:07:44 there, there's at least one other vet since then, but I'm not remembering who it was. You'd have to ask Tony. Frank Ferraro was a veteran, and I think he- I, I think that's right... 2:07:51 in the Navy, and then, uh, and of course Joe Foss. But yeah. Man, I got to know Frank a little bit in my first couple years here. What a guy. Yeah. What are you... I mean, everybody connects. 2:08:04 Well, I think even Toby Dodan likes to connect himself to Trump. He's very, big Trump fan. I mean, he's got the arcade game in his place that's got the- Sure. I heard there's a shower curtain. 2:08:15 He does have a, he does have a man cave that has a couple of, uh, Trump artifacts. So he's showering looking at Trump. Is that what I'm saying? I don't, I don't think that that's Toby's bathroom. Okay. 2:08:24 [laughs] I lo- I- But I, but I'm just saying it's like a- I love the highway signs... there's a shower, there's a, there's a shower curtain with the, the, the old fight, fight. Yeah. 2:08:32 I love the highway signs that say, "God, country, Trump, Dodan." I'm just not quite sure how we got from the first one to the last one, but that's okay. [laughs] Uh, look, I think that, uh, 2:08:44 you know, again, I have the utmost res- respect for Ian. He was a good hire that the governor made. Um, the governor has made numerous hires, um, for- You almost tweeted about that. I do. 2:08:52 We just talked about that twice actually. [laughs] How many times do you wanna have this conversation? Yeah. No, I- Did you say the tweet section? [laughs] Yeah. Okay. 2:08:58 He's, like, he's so far gone he forgot what he's talking about. [laughs] The, uh- Listen... 2:09:03 the go- while the governor, the governor made a great hire in Ian Fury, uh, many of the hires at the highest level, uh, by the governor have undermined the president continuously. 2:09:12 Um, you know, folks in the administration know that. Um- And I think it, it just points to the, the question of what, what are the governor's intentions? 2:09:19 I'll tell you that I sat and listened to the governor's address, uh, in January of 2025, like many South Dakotans, very, very hopeful, uh, and, and not certain what that meant, you know, for the future of South Dakota. 2:09:30 And a lot of what, um, the governor said in his inaugural address was, was, was great stuff, you know, stuff that I think most South Dakotans agree with. 2:09:37 The problem is, is the actions that followed it up pointed to the complete opposite of what they are. 2:09:42 I mean, I think that there were many great people, uh, that the governor could have leaned on, uh, as, uh, to serve as lieutenant governor, to serve as some of his senior advisors. 2:09:50 And, um, you know, he chose to go in a, in a different direction. You know, those people, uh, have a clear and concise record of undermining the President of the United States. 2:10:00 Uh, I think the President and his administration are, are aware of that, and, uh, I, I think you're likely to see the actions, you know, moving forward, it will be a result of that. 2:10:09 To be fair to my double fisting friend over here, you did not describe the tweet that you were gonna tweet at him the second time. Yeah, wait. Well, you do, you do. Oh, I was gonna... Yeah. 2:10:19 So my, the tweet that I drafted up was, so I think, uh, Ian tweeted, uh, some, some very, very, uh, [object clattering] fake news poll numbers that were way off base. 2:10:28 [laughs] And he tweeted that, you know, Governor Rhoden had all the momentum and was gonna be victorious and, you know, on election day and all this stuff. And so I tw- I n- I, I never said, I never said that last part. 2:10:38 It's okay. [laughs] I'm paraphrasing. This is what I said. I don't remember exactly what he tweeted. He tweeted some positive- He tweets a lot. He does. It's hard to keep up with him. 2:10:44 I, I don't actually tweet all that much anymore. Not anymore, but yeah. 2:10:46 Anyway, he tweeted some, some very delusional poll results, to which I retweeted them and I said, I, I was about to retweet them, and my draft of this tweet was, you know, @IanFury is, 2:10:58 uh, a true campaign professional, one of the best in South Dakota. Nobody spins bullshit better than him. He is gonna have an amazing career in a post-Rhoden era. 2:11:08 [laughs] And, and what's funny is like, almost- Oh, I mean, I, I wish he would've. Well, what's funny... No, I, Joe said the same thing. But so I, but what I... 2:11:16 First of all, I meant it, and I was like, I read it back and I was like, this, it comes off as sarcastic, and I wasn't being sarcastic. I, uh, you know- You think he's good at... He does a good job. 2:11:26 Oh, he does a tre- he does a tremendous job. He do- His job, first of all, his job is much harder than mine because he has a terrible candidate, you know, my candidate. 2:11:33 [laughs] Like, my job is very easy because I have a great candidate. And, um, you know- Well, you got, he had to do this all with a bunch of money too. I mean, you guys are really well-funded. 2:11:42 No, he does have the full force of the South Dakota state government behind him. 2:11:45 [laughs] If you look at, if you look at the, uh, if you look at the breakdown that's kind of floating around on social media for how much each candidate spent relative to each vote that they got, and Governor Rhoden was 2:11:55 by far outspent relative to the votes that he got, and I, I, I'm pretty proud of the fact that we were able to run a frugal campaign like that. 2:12:01 One of the things I love about, say, the Lincoln Day dinner circuit, is you get to learn, and not just the other candidates in your race, but the candidates in every race. I didn't know [coughs] 2:12:12 Heather Baxter before the Lincoln Day dinner circuit. I got to become, you know... I, I was always happy to see Sheila Hansen, you know? And, and- Yeah. True... Toby, somebody who I'd 2:12:24 exchange a few words with every chance I got, you know. So you learn to respect everyone else as a human first. Yeah. Yeah. 2:12:31 And, you know, it takes a special kind of crazy to get into this business, but you also have to be willing to serve the people. 2:12:37 Um, and so if anyone is willing to put their name on the ballot, kudos to them, and God bless them. And at the end of the day, I hope we can shake hands and move forward for South Dakota. Well, that's, um, 2:12:48 you know, to, to Matt's point though, you did have the, the bully pulpit too, you know? So there, it isn't, it isn't like you were John Hansen's camp in the race, like s- coming from David and Goliath, you know? 2:13:01 I think, I think there was... I mean, yeah, Dusty and Toby were well-financed, you know, 'cause the heavyweights, I guess financially you'd say. 2:13:10 Um, and then you guys had the advantage of the incumbency, and- I love it whenever people complain about that because they don't realize that they're acknowledging that he's a damn good governor. 2:13:20 Well, there, I don't know if I'd said that. Because we- So- They, they, they, they don't- [laughs]... they, they don't realize that, "Oh, I can't believe that he gets to do this as governor." 2:13:27 Yeah, because he's making good decisions. [laughs] I mean- Well, you mean like- I, I, I, I, I kind of chuckle to myself anytime somebody tries to make that argument. 2:13:35 Well, I mean, he is governing, and there's, like, Dusty's camp was, you know, a little sensitive about all the headlines that Governor Rhoden gets, right? Because they were in a race with him. But the, the reality is 2:13:50 he, he's the governor. He's gonna make news. It's policy, not necessarily politics. Um, but I think you guys, everybody but Hansen probably had, had some- something in their arsenal that was an advantage. 2:14:04 Would you say so, John? Yeah. Absolutely. So anyway, I think, um, you guys ran the best campaigns, and I think that shook out. Postmortem, I mean, what do you... Could Dusty have done anything differently? 2:14:18 Do you think the neg- going so negative would've... I mean, how much did that cost Dusty, you think? How many points? I- You're pretty good at this kind of thing It's hard to qualify. Yeah, it's hard to quantify. 2:14:28 I mean, I think that, you know, Dusty let the race, um... 2:14:33 Well, it's r- I'd say let, he get, let the race get away from him, but the other thing is that he, you know, he has survived in South Dakota politics for so long because he'd never really been in a heavyweight battle, you know, before, right? 2:14:45 He's largely used the Sioux Falls media market to sort of, you know, box out other people. Mm-hmm. Um, 2:14:52 he's, he's an, he's an honest, you know, politician in the sense that he tells you exactly what he is on the positions. 2:14:58 He just happens to be wrong on, you know, uh, many of the positions, and the people were not, you know, not buying what he was selling. Um, and I think he was just sort of the last of the hangovers of kind of... 2:15:09 I mean, if he'd have been running for office in South Dakota 20 years ago, he'd have been a, you know, moderate Democrat. The... Well, do you think, uh... 2:15:17 Well, he'd never been in a heavyweight, but I think the Tammy Howard primary was a good indicator that- Yeah, there was-... trouble on the horizons because- For sure... 2:15:25 I think, I mean, he won, he won sort of, I guess, would you say comfortably, but still. I mean, he, it was, it was- Yeah, I mean, he, I mean, he lost West River in 22. 2:15:34 Like, he, I mean, he, he was very susceptible to being taken out. 2:15:37 It was just gonna require, you know, the right set of circumstances, the right candidate, and, you know, somebody that could, you know, actually take him to task and have the resources and infrastructure to, you know, sort of match his resources and infrastructure, for sure. 2:15:49 And I'll tell you, I left DC and came back to the Heartland because I didn't like what it was doing to me as a person. DC does something to you. 2:15:56 Uh, a, a former congressman from Idaho named Raul Labrador, there was a headline in Politico once where he said, "This place just sucks out your soul" And I'm not gonna go that far, but, 2:16:10 you know, I, I think that there's a different brand of politics out there, and you have... When, when you've been out there too long, you forget what politics is supposed to look like back here in the Heartland. 2:16:20 You know, it, I, I think it was too much for too long, and people couldn't turn on their TVs without hearing about Big Tax Larry Rhoden. [laughs] And made them start to Google, "What's... W- Okay. 2:16:34 What's the truth behind this?" Well- And then, then they, they read good Dakota Scout articles about the property tax cuts, and then they say, "Wait a minute" and it starts to swing back around. 2:16:44 And Governor Rhoden said a few times, "The people of South Dakota can see through the fog." That took a little bit of time, but- Yeah. 2:16:51 Well, I mean, T- Matt said he's an honest politician, but some poi- some people might say he wasn't when he was denying any connection to the, to those negative ads early on. 2:17:00 I, I think he, I mean, he real- he really didn't deny it that, that much. I mean, he came out and, you know, sort of said, "Well, you know, PACs is just part of the process." 2:17:08 You know, I mean, he, I don't think he d- really outright denied it. I mean, I think he was actually generally open to the idea that he was a part of it. 2:17:16 The thing I, the thing I can't get over and I love about Ian, though, is, like, he, he's representing the incumbent governor who 75% of the state voted against on Tuesday night, and he's able to make it sound like a win. 2:17:26 Like, it takes real talent to be able to do that. [laughs] It was a great night Tuesday night. It truly was. 2:17:33 [laughs] I mean, how, how often do you have more spent on the tax against you than your entire campaign budget just in TV ads when you, you, you come out ahead it? I mean- They were pretty relentless. Yeah. They, uh... 2:17:44 Well, he did really well. Larry, uh, Governor Rhoden did really well in rural parts of the state, right? Like, I mean, all, every, pretty much, uh, Highmore, ev- all that stuff up there and west. 2:17:58 And I'll, I'll tell you- He did good in those really rural, remote places... Well, and, and, and- How does he win here- It started, it started a little further east than that. 2:18:03 It started really about Huron, and the reason why I'm making that distinction is because we were able to get, in a lot of those rural places, every highly likely Republican door knocked in Highmore and Miller and, you know, Gettysburg. 2:18:19 [upbeat music] If you want to understand what's really happening in South Dakota, start with The Dakota Scout, South Dakota's leading journal of politics and culture. Locally owned and printed in Sioux Falls. 2:18:32 Founded in 2022 by veteran reporters Jonathan Ellis and Joe Sneve, the Scout brings more than 40 years of combined experience and a reputation for relentless, fair-minded reporting. 2:18:44 From Sioux Falls City Hall to the state capital in Pierre, The Dakota Scout delivers breaking news, investigative reporting, and serious political coverage without the spin. 2:18:54 Its Lewis and Clark-inspired logo reflects its mission, charting new territory in a new era of South Dakota journalism. 2:19:03 Subscribe today for full access to stories delivered straight to your inbox, plus The Scouting Lounge podcast. $7 a month at thedakotascout.com. The Dakota Scout, stay informed. 2:19:19 Today, you guys, Ian, you got some help coming. The go-, uh, lieutenant governor. You, Matt, you mentioned Tony Venhuizen earlier- Mm-hmm... as far as who, who the governor picked as lieutenant governor. Uh, 2:19:31 you guys put out a press release Friday. He's gonna be serving as campaign chairman, um- So what does that mean?... going forward. It, it means that frankly we had a, I've called it a small but mighty team. 2:19:40 We had three campaign staff through that primary. 2:19:43 Uh, we're gonna staff up a little bit for this runoff, and he's gonna help share some of the leadership responsibilities with me, and I think my, my wife is gonna be happy to see me a little more. Uh- So who's, who's, 2:19:56 who's running the government then when you, when Tony... So Tony Venhuizen's hitting the campaign trail. 2:20:00 Yeah, so, so the, the, the release that we sent said that he's gonna take a leave from most of the policy responsibilities that, that he's responsible for in the governor's office right now. Basically. 2:20:10 But Tony has been just an incredibly effective leader at delivering results. 2:20:17 You know, o- one thing I point to, leading the prison task force, that was proof positive of bringing different factions together to get a result. 2:20:27 And I remember Toby saying that if the prison were popular among most South Dakotans, he would support it, and that was back admittedly when it was polling in the 30s. 2:20:36 It was polling at 34% when that first Mason Dixon poll came out in April of '25. After the prison passed, Mason Dixon ran another poll and, and I remember these numbers because it was exactly double. 2:20:49 It went from 34 to 68, that the plan that Governor Rhoden and Lieutenant Governor Venhuizen worked with legislators to get across the finish line had doubled. 2:20:59 I haven't heard, though, Toby making good on that progress to support the prison that now is popular among- Oh... the majority of South Dakotans. 2:21:06 First of all- But, but Lieutenant Governor Venhuizen has been a remarkably effective leader, um, and, and I think he's gonna help us deliver a victory here. 2:21:16 Those were the first set of accurate numbers he said during this podcast. [laughs] Those, the, the poll numbers on that actually are accurate. Here's the thing, Toby wasn't credible. 2:21:24 I think those are the first poll numbers I've cited Those, obviously those were the first numbers you said that were accurate, not just poll numbers, but those were accurate numbers. 2:21:31 Uh, the prison, uh, did become more popular, and Toby was never, uh, anti the prison. He was anti the funding plan for the prison. 2:21:38 Um, and I think it's been well-documented that, you know, the costs were exceedingly, uh, overrun. It was a massive budget. Luckily, it did get down, uh- Does he support the plan we got done? 2:21:49 Uh, he supports the construction of the prison. He does not think that, the, that the way that it was paid for was the right way to pay for it. 2:21:54 He doesn't think the amount that was p- that was paid for it was anywhere near a reasonable amount. Um, you guys could have built a Ritz Carlton, you know, in the state for the price that you're, you're building that. 2:22:03 Um, and so, you know, he would've taken a much different approach to have gotten it paid for. He would've taken a much different approach, uh, on how he would've gone about, uh, funding it. 2:22:11 But certainly, uh, he's very strong on law and order. He certainly wants to see dangerous people incarcerated in the state, which is different than maybe things have been here in the past. Hear, hear. 2:22:20 And, uh, yeah, I mean, it's, it's, uh- We can all agree on that one, right? Bring back the chain gang. [laughs] We can all agree we want the dangerous people locked up. Mm-hmm. No? Not all of them. Not so much? 2:22:33 Joe's out on the street. [laughs] No, like dangerous in what way? Like violent? Yeah. Yeah, violent. Yeah, violent. Yeah. That's, that's what dangerous means to me. Mm-hmm. Dangerous doesn't mean that. 2:22:43 [laughs] To me it does, but... And it's turned into the Jonathan-Joe debate. Yeah. Well, uh, you guys wanna make some predictions? How many... Then we'll talk to you. 2:22:53 I'll talk- I'll share with our listeners before the pro- uh, the last podcast before the runoff what your predictions are then. 2:23:00 But right now, what, how many of, how, what percentage of the vote you think you guys come in at? You're both gonna say over 50%. Well, somebody [laughs] well, somebody has to get over 50%. 2:23:11 Well, yeah, no, you're both gonna say that too, but... Yeah, I'm not, I'm not gonna predict specifically what the outcome will be other than you're gonna see it, you're gonna see it Don't win. 2:23:19 I don't think it'll be close. 2:23:21 I think that the, the policies that, that, that Toby is supporting are substantially more pol- popular than the, than the policies that the governor has implemented, and I think that's gonna yield out in a pretty dramatic fashion for Toby. 2:23:32 People want change, people want things- Are we talking, like, fif- 49, 51 here? No, I- Do you think this is gonna be a margin of victory of, what, three and four? He's substantial. 2:23:41 No, I think it'd be, I think it'd be substantial. 2:23:43 I think you're, you're talking- People, people might not know that I actually studied economics, so I don't, I don't make predictions on numbers without a little bit of data behind them, and I don't have that data on this runoff. 2:23:52 What, what do you feel? I don't, I'm not, I'm not gonna do that. It's in your heart. I don't have data on this runoff here today. I feel- Well, Don, he's not a huge economic guy. 2:23:57 I feel, though, two, two things I know for a fact. One, Governor Rhoden has proven that he's the one who's able to unite different factions of the party to rally support. 2:24:06 Two, in multiple polls that have been released, the other candidates who are no longer in this race, the majority of their supporters choose Governor Larry Rhoden as their second choice. 2:24:15 And so I think most of those supporters are gonna come home to us, and that's what it's gonna take to deliver victory if we can get out the vote. Jonathan, boy, you m- you and I should talk. We'll talk. We'll chat. 2:24:29 We'll chat. Yeah. The, um... You know, I told him we were having this today. I said, "Matt and Ian are gonna come on at the same time." That's what everybody else said. He d- ter- apparently he didn't r- remember this. 2:24:41 It's been a long week. I didn't get a lot of sleep. 'Cause he's like, "What are you talking about?" We're bumping back to 4:00 PM. And he goes, "What are you talking about?" 2:24:48 [laughs] And I said, "Ian and Matt, we're going back." And he goes, "I have no..." What did he say? An hour and 40 minutes later. See? Well, gentlemen- Yeah. Thanks for coming on... thanks for being brave and coming in. 2:25:01 Uh, I would like to get your bosses to do this. You think there's any remote possibility? Name the date, name the time. You think so? 2:25:10 I think the two guys that are in the race, in this runoff race, are the every-man people in the race, right? 2:25:17 Like, it's hard for South Dakotans to relate to, uh, an, an attorney with a stay-at-home mom and seven kids, right? Or six kids. 2:25:26 It's hard to, for South Dakotans to relate to somebody who's been in Congress or living, uh, in the peer world for 25 years. It's hard to relate to that. I think people can't... 2:25:41 I can relate to somebody growing up in a, on a farm, you know, with a rural rancher, like South Dakota, everybody's at least... Everybody has one degree to get to ag world here, right? 2:25:52 Like, everybody's grandpa growing up, like, lived on a farm or whatever. Uh, and then Toby Donen is your classic South Dakotan just growing up in a small town, you know, making something of himself. 2:26:04 I mean, we all aspire to have wealth and things like that. Uh, so I think these two guys are, are, um, the every man. So I think this would be a great setting. I will tell you- For a time... 2:26:15 To- Toby has repeatedly said that of all the people he's met in politics, the person he drank a beer with the most would be Larry Rhoden. Uh, Liz Donen loves Sandy. 2:26:24 They, they cut it up and chop it up at the Lincoln Day dinners. So- I can confirm that. To- To- [laughs] Toby would love to do it. 2:26:30 Let's just bring it all in here, and we'll make sure we have new technology so it goes a lot smoother. [laughs] We won't keep him around for two and a half hours. Um, I apprec- you guys are very gracious with your time. 2:26:41 You've been great to work with, uh, leading up to this point on the campaign. Um, looking forward to working more with you guys, uh, as we cover your campaigns. 2:26:50 Uh, tell your bosses congratulations for us, and thanks to Sheila Guestring and John Cole. Thanks to Beal Distributing and June Sleep Systems. News Tips Welcome. Thanks. 2:27:01 [outro music]
